Ninja+Slayer doublecheck

[Murdock Mudeater]

At one point, the Ninja was considered to be unable to multi-class with the rogue due to them being considered the same class, not sure if this is still true. I also understand the ACG combined classes to each count as both parent classes for the purposes of multiclassing.

Was looking to make a Ninja+Slayer, double checking if that is legal or not. Is it legal?

This would be for PFS, if that matters.

[Java Man]

Hybrid classes do not count as the parent classes for multiclassing, this was removed during playtest.

From the class intro section in ACG:

Parent Classes: Each of the following classes draws upon two classes to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, doing so usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).

[Nefreet]

Ninja/Slayer is legal, just as Rogue/Slayer is.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Ah, how about Blood Rager + Unchained Barbarian? Can I stack Bloodrage(su) on top of the Unchained Rage(ex)?

[Lady-J]

you can multiclass blood rager and barb you would just have 2 different rages and technically by raw you should have no issue raging at the same time with both so long as its an unchained barbarian and not a normal one, how ever i would expect the dm to rule you become exosted after you exit a rage instead of fatigued if you rage with both at the same time

[IvyMathy]

You can't stack rage effects as per this FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gw#v5748eaic9t91

FAQ wrote:

Anger management: If I am in a rage, or an Unchained rage, or a bloodrage, or some similar form of rage, can I stack up as many benefits as possible?

No. When you either activate or are affected by a new form of rage (such as a barbarian’s rage, a skald’s raging song, a bloodrager’s bloodrage, and the rage spell), you can choose whether to keep your current rage or to accept the new rage instead, much like a creature affected by multiple polymorph effects. If you are in the throes of a rage that you could not automatically end on your own, such as a wild rager’s wild rage, you may not choose to replace it with a new rage effect. The exception to this rule is the skald’s master skald ability, which explicitly allows the skald’s raging song to stack with other rage effects.

[Lady-J]

Mathmick wrote:

You can't stack rage effects as per this FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gw#v5748eaic9t91

FAQ wrote:

Anger management: If I am in a rage, or an Unchained rage, or a bloodrage, or some similar form of rage, can I stack up as many benefits as possible?

No. When you either activate or are affected by a new form of rage (such as a barbarian’s rage, a skald’s raging song, a bloodrager’s bloodrage, and the rage spell), you can choose whether to keep your current rage or to accept the new rage instead, much like a creature affected by multiple polymorph effects. If you are in the throes of a rage that you could not automatically end on your own, such as a wild rager’s wild rage, you may not choose to replace it with a new rage effect. The exception to this rule is the skald’s master skald ability, which explicitly allows the skald’s raging song to stack with other rage effects.

unchained barbarian rage is a completely different rage from all the other rages tho all the others increase str and con this one does not

[Saethori]

The FAQ does not specify "their benefits do not stack". It specifies you simply cannot have multiple simultaneous rages.

Otherwise, there would be no problem in having more than one rage at the same time as their benefits would typically not stack.

[Claxon]

Yeah, the FAQ isn't unclear LadyJ.

It's says you can't have two active rages, it doesn't even mention the types of bonuses.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Mathmick wrote:

You can't stack rage effects as per this FAQ

FAQ wrote:

Anger management: If I am in a rage, or an Unchained rage, or a bloodrage, or some similar form of rage, can I stack up as many benefits as possible?

No. When you either activate or are affected by a new form of rage (such as a barbarian’s rage, a skald’s raging song, a bloodrager’s bloodrage, and the rage spell), you can choose whether to keep your current rage or to accept the new rage instead, much like a creature affected by multiple polymorph effects. If you are in the throes of a rage that you could not automatically end on your own, such as a wild rager’s wild rage, you may not choose to replace it with a new rage effect. The exception to this rule is the skald’s master skald ability, which explicitly allows the skald’s raging song to stack with other rage effects.

Interesting. So while they don't stack, per say, you are able to go directly from one to the other without becoming fatigued, as far as I can tell.

Though this really doesn't seem like an FAQ answer, this is more an errata, since this is a change in rules, not just clarifying a question regarding existing rules.

[Claxon]

I'm not sure I agree it's errata, since only recently did new rules elements get released that allow more than one type of "rage". Paizo when writing those elements didn't consider how to handle it if a character had more than one of those types available to them and didn't think to write about what should happen.

[Lady-J]

personally i would allow them to stack but have you be exosted after the rage as opposed to fatigued and maybe to 2 times as long but that would just be my call as a gm

[Murdock Mudeater]

Lady-J wrote:

personally i would allow them to stack but have you be exosted after the rage as opposed to fatigued and maybe to 2 times as long but that would just be my call as a gm

That would be my ruling too, in a home game. It's a flavorful way to handle it, and it would really make the player need to think about how to proceed.

Claxon wrote:

I'm not sure I agree it's errata, since only recently did new rules elements get released that allow more than one type of "rage". Paizo when writing those elements didn't consider how to handle it if a character had more than one of those types available to them and didn't think to write about what should happen.

Did they clarify a question that was not clearly covered in the written rules? No. The written rules are clear that rage stacks with other, differently named rages. Just like Rage stacks with any other differently named ability. Instead the FAQ changed how this ability functioned, despite RAW to the contrary. That's more in the realm of Errata, despite wording it as the answer to a question.

Anyway, I'm not upset with their ruling, I just have a pet peeve regarding groups using FAQs to change rules.

[Chess Pwn]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

personally i would allow them to stack but have you be exosted after the rage as opposed to fatigued and maybe to 2 times as long but that would just be my call as a gm

That would be my ruling too, in a home game. It's a flavorful way to handle it, and it would really make the player need to think about how to proceed.

Claxon wrote:

I'm not sure I agree it's errata, since only recently did new rules elements get released that allow more than one type of "rage". Paizo when writing those elements didn't consider how to handle it if a character had more than one of those types available to them and didn't think to write about what should happen.

Did they clarify a question that was not clearly covered in the written rules? No. The written rules are clear that rage stacks with other, differently named rages. Just like Rage stacks with any other differently named ability. Instead the FAQ changed how this ability functioned, despite RAW to the contrary. That's more in the realm of Errata, despite wording it as the answer to a question.

Anyway, I'm not upset with their ruling, I just have a pet peeve regarding groups using FAQs to change rules.

They just clarified that rage in all it's forms is considered "same source" and thus don't stack.

Or actually more like transmutation spells that when two are on you you pick which actually works.
So sure, the rules before there were multiple rages and with no clarification on rage could have had them stack. But making a clarification soon after release to say it uses rules similar to other rules seems fine.