|
I was just wondering, if anyone has extended/combined the concept of state point buy and racial build points to give folks more character customization (able to play higher build point races) but in exchange for lower state build points?
At the most basic, if you wanted a 15 point buy, and you said all core races were 10 bp, you would have 25 build points. Allowing you to have a strong race, but in exchange you have less stat points, or vice versa.
If anyone has done something like this, is 1 BP == 1 Stat Buy Point, or is the ration 1:2? or something different?
Thoughts/debate?
It will create characters that are very unbalanced from eachother, and by messing with race building you're opening up lots of issues, since those stats are after stat by, and you can get +2 for really cheap compared to just increasing a stat by 1 for a high number.
It is less of a problem if you don't allow players to custom build their own races. I am not sure how well (for example) a 10 RP race with 20 point buy for ability scores would balance with a 20 RP race with 10 point buy for ability scores, but I am guessing that that is your real question.
|
|
I guess I was thinking of only using proscribed races, not allowing folks to build their own, but taking into account the races in the balance of characters.
Today, if two players make characters, one a half-orc the other an elf, they have a 3 point spread in point build (8 vs 11) In practice I'm not sure if that is that imbalanced, but would it be more so or less if the halforc had 17 stat points, and the elf 14?
The other problem is that the RP values do not necessarily reflect how strong a race is. For example, the Elf race has abilities that are of varying value for each class, and there are very few classes that can make good use of every single default racial ability. On the other hand, the geniekin races have deceptively low RP values, but few people would actually consider them to be weaker than the core races.
Interesting
|
|
It is less of a problem if you don't allow players to custom build their own races. I am not sure how well (for example) a 10 RP race with 20 point buy for ability scores would balance with a 20 RP race with 10 point buy for ability scores, but I am guessing that that is your real question.
That is bang on, with books like Blood of Angeles, and Blood of Fiends, we are seeing a lot more characters built as Tieflings (13 bp) and Aaasamir (15 bp) with ideal stats for their character classes.
Would they be more balanced if they traded stats for race build points for these predefined races?
There have actually been a few threads and I even considered it myself, but in general, I think it will result in relatively unbalanced play. There are a lot of problems with the way it works, for example, a static feat for a race costs 2 RP, but a flexible feat costs 4 RP. When a player is building his own race, the two are identical, however, in terms of what the ability provides.
As others have noted, there are plenty of other examples as well. I agree with David Knott 242 (and your own assessment) that building your own races and letting your players choose from them would help.
Stats WIN hard, nerf those and you'll just see dual talent humans more.
And like there's things like lizardfolk. As a playable race they have bonus to str and con, 2 natural armor a bite and 2 claws. This race is perfect for barbs and fighters AND they are also only 8 RP.
Or the Gnoll, also str and con with 2 nat armor and darkvision, 6rp. So not only is my race GREAT for my fighter/barb I also get more stats too to be even better.
as long as you say which races are legal they are close enough to be balanced just fine, like the difference between aasimar with str and cha vs the nagaji with str and cha penalty to int but +1 natural armor is basically moot, like a paladin with 5 int or 7 is basically the same anyways. Though one is much more RP.
My advice would be to avoid this, if you really want to give players more options then create some custom races yourself.
But under no condition allow players to make races themselves, as if any of them has a hint of min-maxer it's hard not to go all out and abuse the system (which isn't very good at representing the power of a race).
|
|
Yeah I see how my introductory post has led to a less clear topic. Agreed whole heartedly I have no intention of handing players the keys to the race building tools, but just using the pre-defined race point values that have been calculated for existing races, and some how combining that with stat points to let people exchange stats for better races, or worse racers for better stats.
I was thinking an alternative to just point for point, but perhaps saying something like:
RP <6 = +1 Point buy
6<= RP <= 14 = 0
14 < RP < 20 = -1 point buy
20<= RP < 25 =. -2 point buy
Those numbers don't feel right, but it isn't 1:1
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd be concerned this would favor single ability classes over multiple ability classes even more than normal.
Personally, I use a variant point buy to get around that. You can choose from 3 options. Either the standard 15 point buy. Or 20 point buy but no score over 18 after racial adjustments. Or last, 25 point buy but no score over 16 after racial adjustments.
I'd be concerned this would favor single ability classes over multiple ability classes even more than normal.
Personally, I use a variant point buy to get around that. You can choose from 3 options. Either the standard 15 point buy. Or 20 point buy but no score over 18 after racial adjustments. Or last, 25 point buy but no score over 16 after racial adjustments.
Very interesting, I like it and will suggest this to the group.