where are the tools from? and how did familiar get co op feat?
Amazing Tools of Manufacture are from the Advanced Race Guide. The Valet Familiar archetype is from the Animal Archive. The familiar is treated as having the Cooperative Crafting feat when crafting with its master.
And I think you're conflating magical crafting and mundane crafting. The Amazing Tools of Manufacture do absolutely nothing for magical crafting such as with any of the item creation feats. Doubling the progress by increasing the DC by 5 is solely for magical crafting.But if you're talking about mundane crafting, then the rules seem to suggest that you can high-speed craft 2000 gp worth of an item once a day and craft at normal speed for the remaining 7 hours a day. To be quite honest, I doubt that's the intention, but I see nothing suggesting otherwise.
The Amazing Tools of Manufacture do absolutely nothing for magical crafting such as with any of the item creation feats.
I see nothing in the description of the tools that prohibits their working with magic item creation.
The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly.
Magic items are created through the appropriate Craft skill (or Spellcraft, which works for all items). Making magic armor uses wither the Craft (Armor) skill or Spellcraft. Magic weapons use Craft (Weapon) or Spellcraft. And so on. As far as the game mechanics are concerned, the tools do aid in magic item construction.
From a descriptive point of view, the tools require the Master Craftsman feat to make (in addition to Craft Wondrous Item). The sole purpose of Master Craftsman (aside from a minor bonus on checks) is to make magic items using a specific Craft or Profession skill. Why would the Master Craftsman feat be a requirement if the tools could not assist in making magic items? So from a descriptive/fluff point of view, the tools should assist in making magic items.
Magic items are created through the appropriate Craft skill (or Spellcraft, which works for all items). Making magic armor uses wither the Craft (Armor) skill or Spellcraft. Magic weapons use Craft (Weapon) or Spellcraft. And so on. As far as the game mechanics are concerned, the tools do aid in magic item construction.
Yeah, that makes much more sense than what I originally thought. I just always thought that you just use Spellcraft for everything magical and that's it (because it works just as well in most cases). I think there's only a handful of mundane items that cost more than 1000 gp. Interestingly, while it does allow for both mundane and magical crafting, going purely by the rules, mundane crafting with the Amazing Tools of Manufacture is more expensive than crafting normally which is odd.
I don't see anything in the rules which would bar you from crafting 8 hours per day, even if one of those hours is super-charged to 2000 gp of work. I'm still unsure whether you can speed up that high-speed crafting any further with the use of Cooperative Crafting or increasing the DC by 5, though.
I think there's only a handful of mundane items that cost more than 1000 gp.
Look at crafting items out of special materials. Adamantine hellknight plate is 17000gp. these items are the main reason for items like those magic tools.
Ok but again, I understand how the tools work. My question was can a crafter then continue to work for another 7 hours gaining more progress?We weren't talking to you, but to someone else who brought up another question. Your question has no official answer - make something up.
I am reading it as "You get to do 8 hours of work in 1 hour" not as "You get to do an hours work in one hour AND still get 7 more hours in".
However I also think the tool is only for mundane crafting, not magical items.
It is a Paizo plugin to speed up the slow process of mundane crafting. However I do wish it was intended to be used everyday. As a GM I would allow it everyday for mundane crafting, but that is not the intent.
The Amazing Tools of Manufacture do absolutely nothing for magical crafting such as with any of the item creation feats.I see nothing in the description of the tools that prohibits their working with magic item creation.
The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly.Magic items are created through the appropriate Craft skill (or Spellcraft, which works for all items). Making magic armor uses wither the Craft (Armor) skill or Spellcraft. Magic weapons use Craft (Weapon) or Spellcraft. And so on. As far as the game mechanics are concerned, the tools do aid in magic item construction.
From a descriptive point of view, the tools require the Master Craftsman feat to make (in addition to Craft Wondrous Item). The sole purpose of Master Craftsman (aside from a minor bonus on checks) is to make magic items using a specific Craft or Profession skill. Why would the Master Craftsman feat be a requirement if the tools could not assist in making magic items? So from a descriptive/fluff point of view, the tools should assist in making magic items.
Crafting and magical item creation have their own rules. Them using the same skills does nothing to mix the rules up. Even when using a craft skill, such as with to make magic items you still use the magical item creation rules.
Also you can only use regular crafting such as armor in certain situations such as with the feat that allows fighters to make magical items.
Creating magic items is not called out as crafting when one or the other is being boosted by a rule. Mundane crafting is called out as crafting. Magical item creation boost(such as traits or feats) calls out magical item creation.
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I'd say there are several points here:
1-. Tools of amazing manufacture state that their are "tuned" to a specific craft[XXXXXX] skill
If you can use that specific craft skill to craft a magical item and the tools are "tuned" for that craft skill, then they should perfectly work for Magical Item crafting when using the "tuuned" craft skill.
...these items simply appear to be magically enhanced masterwork tools for a specific Craft skill (determined randomly), granting a +4 circumstance bonus on such skill checks...
2-. You can craft for up to 8 hours every day, no matter how many shortcuts you take. If you finish an item in 20 minutes you still have 7h40m available to continue crafting that day.
3-. The absolute minimum crafting time for a magic item is 8 hours (except potions and scrolls). Nothing can drop this value below 8h so tools are useless for cheap magic items, they only cut time the second day onwards.
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours
4-. You can only craft a single magic item per day.
Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day.
5-.While a little ambiguous wording, seems that when using the tools the rest of the time cannot be used to keep crafting the same magic item you were working since they state you do a single check the final day; that would prevent you from making extra partial checks to continue progression. You may have 7h spare but those could only be used for mundane crafting since you also have a 1 magic item/day limit.
For objects with a final cost of more than 2,000 gp, the wielder can perform 2,000 gp worth of work in a single hour, but only once each day. Only a single skill check is required to successfully complete the item, made on the last day of crafting and gaining the +4 circumstance bonus granted by the tools.
Still, this is just my point of view.
I'd say there are several points here:
2-. You can craft for up to 8 hours every day, no matter how many shortcuts you take. If you finish an item in 20 minutes you still have 7h40m available to continue crafting that day.
I absolutely agree with this.
3-. The absolute minimum crafting time for a magic item is 8 hours (except potions and scrolls). Nothing can drop this value below 8h so tools are useless for cheap magic items, they only cut time the second day onwards.
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours
This part I don't agree with, because unfortunately they go on to immediately contradict themselves:
This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by +5.
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks.
This part I don't agree with, because unfortunately they go on to immediately contradict themselves:
This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by +5.
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks.
The way I'm reading it there's no contradiction.
I'd say the quote: "This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price" just applies to ""Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price", so instead of working 8h for every 1000gp price cost you can work 4h per 1000gp by taking the +5 to the check DC.
But, the "minimum of at least 8 hours" quote still applies no matter how fast you work. The acceleration doesn't say you can break that minimum.
So, if you take accelerated crafting, the complete sentence would resemble something like this:
"By increasing the DC to create the item by +5, creating an item requires 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours"
That's how I read it, but again, it's my point of view.
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The Amazing Tools of Manufacture do absolutely nothing for magical crafting such as with any of the item creation feats.I see nothing in the description of the tools that prohibits their working with magic item creation.
The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly.Magic items are created through the appropriate Craft skill (or Spellcraft, which works for all items). Making magic armor uses wither the Craft (Armor) skill or Spellcraft. Magic weapons use Craft (Weapon) or Spellcraft. And so on. As far as the game mechanics are concerned, the tools do aid in magic item construction.
From a descriptive point of view, the tools require the Master Craftsman feat to make (in addition to Craft Wondrous Item). The sole purpose of Master Craftsman (aside from a minor bonus on checks) is to make magic items using a specific Craft or Profession skill. Why would the Master Craftsman feat be a requirement if the tools could not assist in making magic items? So from a descriptive/fluff point of view, the tools should assist in making magic items.
The question you are missing is: "Where they say that they can be used to make magical items?"
And the reply is nowhere.The description say:
"The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly."
not
"The wielder may use the tools to create magical items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly."
Why would the Master Craftsman feat be a requirement if the tools could not assist in making magic items?
Why the flaming property require fireball or flame strike? A instantaneous fire effect, that in flame strike is partially divine, has nothing to do with a continuous effect.
Same for frost weapon and ice storm, mighty cleaving and divine power (seriously, you get an enhancement to a feat, but the feat is not required to make the weapon?), an do on and on.
There is a very tenuous cause/effect link between requirements and final effect of a magic item.
The question you are missing is: "Where they say that they can be used to make magical items?"
And the reply is nowhere.
Sure, the tools don't explicitly say they work on magical items... but they state this:
The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly.
A magical item is still an item (normally of masterwork quality); so the tools power should work for any "tuned" craft roll that is used for item creation, magical or not.
Also keep in mind, for these tools, that the cost of special materials on a mundane item could put it outside of most crafter's reach.
An adamantine greatsword costs 3,050 gp. An NPC craftsman with +10 on his Craft skill taking 10 to create a masterwork weapon? That'd be an average of 77 weeks of work. A year and a half of work, every week, on one weapon.
If I was a GM, I'd rule a yes on any mundane crafting, but a solid no on magical item crafting. Otherwise I'd probably get characters buying eight sets of these tools to pump out 16,000 gp per day using shenanigans with cooperative crafting rules and such.
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Sure, you can 'create' the item part of the magical item using the tools. But 'creating' magical items has nothing to do with actual creation of an item, but rather enchanting an already existing item.The question you are missing is: "Where they say that they can be used to make magical items?"
And the reply is nowhere.Sure, the tools don't explicitly say they work on magical items... but they state this:
The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly.A magical item is still an item (normally of masterwork quality); so the tools power should work for any "tuned" craft roll that is used for item creation, magical or not.
As Ozy said, crafting a item is different from crafting a magic item.