I started a thread and got very little commentary, so I'm starting over. I did use the chance to think through what I wanted and what I thought it would cost, so at least I now have a concrete (err, gold) proposal to offer up. Does anyone please have suggestions as to the write-up? The party is getting the details on these tomorrow night!
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Price 1,200; Aura moderate abjuration; CL 9th; Weight —
These gold rings are typically forged in sets of two to six rings, as indicated by engravings unique to each set. Spells of up to 4th level with a range of Touch may be cast upon a target at Close range, provided that the caster has line of effect to the target and both are wearing Rings of Juxtaposition from the same set. This does not affect the time that it takes to cast the spell or touch the target. Your Ring of Juxtaposition will not function until you have worn it for at least 24 hours, and will not affect spells cast from spell-trigger items.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 600 gp
Forge Ring, Reach Spell
I'd say they look pretty fun. I might use a similar idea sometime in the future. If I had any concern it might be with 4-level spell casting classes. I haven't looked carefully but having their whole spell list have reach metamagic could be a fairly big buff.
It is, however, only reach for beneficial Touch spells. We're talking about Rangers & Paladins & who? Do they get a lot of (harmless) Touch spells?
That item is too convenient for my taste, especially because it is usable at will and very cheap.
I would change it to work more like the deliver touch spells feature of the wizard's familiar. The caster designates one ring-bearer when casting the spell, and during their turn, the ring-bearer can use their own action to deliver the spell.
Amanuensis, does my language need clearing up? Did I make it clear that the rings as written will only aid a caster in targeting another ring-bearer?
It sounds like your variant would allow the second ring-bearer to deliver a spell to anyone -- including a foe.
It's way too inexpensive. It's basically a Lesser Reach Metamagic Rod that's not only cheaper and doesn't use up your hand, but also can be used at-will.
I'm not convinced that this item is different enough from a reach metamagic rod to warrant being its own item (hence my proposed change).
The language could be improved, but it's clear what the item is supposed to do. It should probably say line of sight rather than line of effect, because the way it is worded, it still requires the caster to select a target (which requires line of sight). It is also unclear if a ranged touch attack would be necessary and what happens if the target is unwilling.
And, like the others said, it should not be usable at will.
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Perhaps bitter lily should have linked the thread where this was all worked out.
The spells available are significantly more limited than a lesser reach rod, and the targets are even more limited.
- harmless spells only
- touch spells only
- targets with a ring from the same set only
- must continuously occupy a ring slot
- 4th level spells or lower only (better than lesser reach rod)
3/day is only three fifths the cost of unlimited.
Regarding wording, I would word it similar to ring of friend shield, something like:
These rings always come in sets of between two and six. Any ring of juxtaposition without at least one of its mates is useless. Any of the wearers of one ring can, at any time, cast a harmless touch spell with the wearer of another mated ring as the recipient. The spell's target must be within close range and in line of effect. A ring of juxtaposition will not function until you have worn it for at least 24 hours, and will not affect spells cast from spell-trigger items.
Regarding effect, I would probably bring it down to match the lesser rod's 3rd level or lower, or price it up and allow it to affect 6th level or lower. I wouldn't worry about the side-effects with Paladins/Rangers/Bloodragers.
3/day is only three fifths the cost of unlimited.
3/day is also only 3/5 the price of continuous.
But while a ring of true strike (3/day) may make sense at the cost of 4,800. It makes no sense for a ring of continuous true strike to cost 8,000.
Similarly a ring of cure light wounds with 3 charges a day would cost 1,200. But no DM in their right mind would let someone have unlimited cure light wounds for 2,000 gold.
The point is that the formulas are guidelines. A DM needs to consider the power of effects, especially ones with unlimited/continuous uses.
In my estimation, 1200 is too cheap.
At this price range, a ring does not have a lot of competitors, and it is much more comfortable than handling a metamagic rod.
Whether you can use an item three times per day or at will can make a huge difference. Pricing shouldn't bet the only factor to decide what is balanced.
Also, it should be noted that metamagic rods are severely underpriced (even the designers admitted that, though they still haven't changed it as far as I know).
Serum, thank you for the link, and the proposed wording! I'm adopting it immediately. Although I will also want something like:
"This does not affect the time that it takes to cast the spell or touch the target."
I want unlimited because of the back-and-forth problem. Do I limit a specific ring to so many castings per day? So many receptions? Or both? Or do I limit a whole set to so many uses/day?
So all right then, it's not priced correctly for the value. Keeping in mind the attunement period for a ring slot, if it only applies to spells of 3rd level or lower, would 1,200 gp fit? 1,500 gp? (Half the price of a rod that can actually do a lot more, albeit fewer times/day.)
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Serum, thank you for the link, and the proposed wording! I'm adopting it immediately. Although I will also want something like:
"This does not affect the time that it takes to cast the spell or touch the target."
This should be unneeded. Since the description itself does not mention metamagic, it should be apparent that other effects remain unchanged. There should not be any requirement to succeed at 'touching' the recipient. If this is unclear, that is what needs to be changed. Perhaps:
Any of the wearers of one ring can, at any time, cast a harmless spell with a range of touch, targeting the wearer of another mated ring. The target need only be within close range and in line of effect to be affected.
Serum, great! However, I'm changing your beautiful prose, to try to avoid stupidities like "I'm a fighter, but I can cast a spell because of this ring! It says so!" How did I do?
As for price, folks, the party is getting these rings for free (or for WBL) as a reward for services rendered. I'm more concerned with how much they can get if they sell the rings off than with how cheap the rings would be to buy. In terms of WBL, the party got six rings, so they will each be worth 1,500 gp even if three PCs decide to sell theirs off. Three sellers, however, would receive only what they could get for items valued at 1,000 gp apiece.
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Price varies, see text; Aura moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Weight —
These gold rings are typically forged in sets of two to eight rings, as indicated by the engravings unique to each set. Any ring of juxtaposition without at least one of its mates is pure decoration and worth only 100 gp, while two or three rings together are each worth 1,000 gp, and four or more rings in a set are each worth 1,500 gp. Whenever any wearer of one ring casts a harmless spell of up to 3rd level with a range of touch, the wearer of any other mated ring is a valid target, provided that the second wearer is within close range and in line of effect. A ring of juxtaposition will not function until you have worn it for at least 24 hours, and will not affect spells cast from spell-trigger items.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 750 gp
Forge Ring, Reach Spell
I kinda like it, though for my own games Id probably change Close Range and Line of Effect to Close Range and Line of Sight. That way I can occasionally force the healer in closer with a Darkness spell or such.
Tinalles, thanks for the list of Touch spells! That's impressive! Uh, how many spells are in your database?
I can reduce the range on my rings to a simple 30 feet, to prevent high-level casters from extending it to 50 feet or more.
I can put in uses/day. But how? Each ring permits being a target an unlimited times/day but only 3 spells/day cast through it? Or rather, 3 targets/day touched through a given ring? How do I write that up?
Please note that a given ring only benefits one person -- in that anyone who wants to be a target of a touch spell at short range MUST have a ring and wear it continuously. The caster is also donating a ring slot, without personal benefit.
{EtA: Are we all clear that the price I'm giving is for EACH ring in the set? A caster who finds these in the market and wants to make "one investment" is buying all of his friends rings, too, and convincing them to donate a ring slot. A four-PC party would have to spend 6,000 gp on rings, although I admit that's still a lot less than people are suggesting.}
I cannot go to 5-digit prices. Cannot. The party is getting these as treasure, and there's an attunement on a ring slot to use them. Sooner or later, several someones are going to decide that they have a better use for their ring finger. Maybe two or three possible uses, only those rings can be switched out quickly. And it will be sooner, guaranteed, if they can get a +3 weapon and +3 armor in exchange! This is the staff problem. You cannot give a low- or even mid-level party a staff. They'll sell it in a flash.
I kinda like it, though for my own games Id probably change Close Range and Line of Effect to Close Range and Line of Sight. That way I can occasionally force the healer in closer with a Darkness spell or such.
Leonhem, thanks for the encouragement. I understand your desire to maintain a GM toolbox here, but I can't figure out the right way to flavor it.
A caster is on one side of a glass wall, and the desired target is on the other side, in an Obscuring Mist. The caster has neither line of effect nor line of sight. Their two rings cannot magically touch each other. Period. But which obstacle, the glass wall or the Mist, is the problem?
To me, if the rings maintain a magical juxtaposition with each other at all times, sight isn't an issue. The rings don't see. Or smell. They just are "next" to each other in some magical way. But anything that breaks line of effect will perforce break any kind of on-going magical effect, including a magical juxtaposition.
Price varies, see text; Aura moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Weight —
These gold rings are typically forged in sets of two to eight rings, as indicated by the engravings unique to each set. If casting a harmless spell of up to 3rd level with a range of touch, you may choose to "touch" a target through your ring of juxtaposition up to three times/day. Your target must be within 30 feet and in line of effect, and wear a ring in the same set. A ring of juxtaposition will not function until you have worn it for at least 24 hours, and will not affect spells cast from spell-trigger items. Any ring of juxtaposition without at least one of its mates is pure decoration and worth only 100 gp, while two or three rings together are valued at 1,000 gp each, and four or more rings in a set have a price of 1,500 gp each.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 750 gp
Forge Ring, Reach Spell
~~~ OR ~~~
Price varies, see text; Aura moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Weight —
These gold rings are typically forged in sets of two to eight rings, as indicated by the engravings unique to each set. You may choose to "touch" a target through your ring of juxtaposition up to three times/day, but only when casting a harmless spell of up to 3rd level with a range of touch. Your target must be within 30 feet and in line of effect, and wear a ring in the same set. A ring of juxtaposition will not function until you have worn it for at least 24 hours, and will not affect spells cast from spell-trigger items. Any ring of juxtaposition without at least one of its mates is pure decoration and worth only 100 gp, while two or three rings together are valued at 1,000 gp each, and four or more rings in a set have a price of 1,500 gp each.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 750 gp
Forge Ring, Reach Spell
Price varies, see text; Aura moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Weight —
These gold rings are typically forged in sets of two to eight rings, as indicated by the engravings unique to each set. If casting a harmless spell of up to 3rd level with a range of touch, you may choose to "touch" the target through your ring of juxtaposition. Your target must be within 30 feet and in line of effect, and wear a ring in the same set. A ring of juxtaposition will not function until you have worn it for at least 24 hours, and will not affect spells cast from spell-trigger items. Any ring of juxtaposition without at least one of its mates is pure decoration and worth only 100 gp, while two or three rings together are valued at 1,000 gp each, and four or more rings in a set have a price of 1,500 gp each.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 750 gp
Forge Ring, Reach Spell
But... this is honestly much worse than a lesser rod of reach metamagic, which costs twice as much. If it only functions as often, the ring has got to be a whole lot cheaper than I've got it at. A whole lot.
<> There's lots of harmless Touch spells, yes -- but surely as many harmless Close & Medium ones that a rod can affect but the rings cannot.
<> There's a ton of Touch, Close, & Medium not-harmless spells that a rod can affect, but the rings cannot.
<> There's even potentially targets of harmless Touch spells that the rod can reach that the rings cannot -- those that decided to wear a different ring or never got one.
So thank you to those of you who are cautioning me. I'll look carefully at the results. And thank you to Serum and others who helped me think about the language. My players are arriving!