Hello. I haven't posted in a long time. I can't say I am new to Pathfinder anymore I suppose. I've been playing a Kingmaker campaign for almost three years now! I have a human rogue there and she's been a lot of fun (although I never intended for her to end up being a queen). We also have a side plot going (characters that work for our main Kingmaker ruling characters to do all the extra side quests). I have a witch there who is a lot more fun than the rogue.
Anyway, our GM is wrapping up our Kingmaker campaign and is going to be starting a new campaign called Skull and Shackles. I am pretty excited about a fresh start because when we started Pathfinder I was new and made a lot of mistakes building my rogue character.
For Skull and Shackles, originally we were going to only be allowed half casters and I was going to play a bard. But things have changed (we tested the campaign with NPCs) and the GM decided to allow full casters. I was still thinking about playing a bard and asked the GM is he would allow me to play a kinsune because I had a fun character concept. I told him about it and he is okay with me playing a kinsune but suggested I might want to look into Occultist as well as bard.
Occultist seems to fit well with what I want to do! I am so glad he suggested it (he always gives awesome suggestions when you ask for his help). He was the one who suggested a witch for me and that character was a lot of fun, more so than my main Kingmaker rogue who is now queen!
But I have to make a couple of confessions: 1) Occultist is a little confusing to me. Luckily we are starting out at level 1, so I can learn as a I play 2) I poorly planned my Kingmaker rogue. I think this is because in the past, I played many DnD games and rarely did we ever get above 7th or 8th level. So I tended to focus on what was good at early levels without planning ahead. My Kingmaker rogue is 14th level now and I have a lot of regrets (I've made up for a few things, but I wish I planned better in the beginning).
Hence this thread!
I really want to make this Kinsune Occultist with a flare for collecting fine art. It's her drive in life, collect as much artwork as she can. It's going to be a near obsession. But I need suggestions to plan her. I like Kinsune because I personally like shape shifters and my rogue and my witch were both human. I want something different. When looking at races, Kinsune is a race that just greatly appeals to me. Plus, their love of wandering can fit well in the campaign.
Occultist fits in with my play style (at least the spells do and how spells are not selected ahead of time works). I like flexibility. My implements can be small, fine art objects too. So collecting art can not just be an obsession, but an obsession with a purpose as she searches for art to use as a means of becoming more powerful.
Does anyone have any advice on builds, where to start, online guides (I found a few, not sure which ones are "good"). Or is this character concept going to be a dud and will I have regrets again? Thanks!
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I don't know Occultists very well, but unless you're going to focus around Enchantment spells or physical combat, I suggest you to select the Superior Shapeshifter alternate racial trait. It lets you transform in a fox (size Tiny) at will, for and indefinite amount of time, similarly to Beast Shape II. Other than adding a lot of role play possibilities, this is perfect for casters since it gives you a net of +5 to AC and makes you really stealthy. Also, it gives you scent and the Dex bonus boosts your Acrobatics bonus, which is very useful on ships.
The biggest issue for casters is the fact that in fox-shape you can't cast spells with verbal (unless you have a Ring of Eloquence) or somatic components. However, Occultists cast psychic spells, which do not have neither of the two components! So you should be fine.
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I don't know Occultists very well, but unless you're going to focus around Enchantment spells or physical combat, I suggest you to select the Superior Shapeshifter alternate racial trait. It lets you transform in a fox (size Tiny) at will, for and indefinite amount of time, similarly to Beast Shape II. Other than adding a lot of role play possibilities, this is perfect for casters since it gives you a net of +5 to AC and makes you really stealthy. Also, it gives you scent and the Dex bonus boosts your Acrobatics bonus, which is very useful on ships.
The biggest issue for casters is the fact that in fox-shape you can't cast spells with verbal (unless you have a Ring of Eloquence) or somatic components. However, Occultists cast psychic spells, which do not have neither of the two components! So you should be fine.
Whenever an occultist casts a spell, he must have the corresponding implement in his possession and present the implement to the target or toward the area of effect.
Not sure how you're going to present an implement with only fox feet.
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Just attach them to a collar / tiny sized bandoleer / tiny sized armor. You could even make them float around your head using Prestidigitation, if someone else in the party can cast it, and fetch them when you need them.
Come on. You don't have to manipulate them, you just have to present them. This is something that even a dog can do. Literally.
A Hand of the Mage is literally made for this. I've seen it used by someone playing a monster as a PC (a sphinx wizard, if it matters).
Anyway, I'm not that familiar with the occultist guides, but your basic occultist is a character who can be effective in melee with a fair bit of buffing, or semi-effective as a pure caster. Most people aren't that happy with that situation so they try to push it to be better as one or the other. Which do you want?
Mental focus is the point where an occultist feels most stretched. You see all those focus powers and want to use them at their full capacity, then realise that you just can't do that with all of them. Extra Mental Focus is a feat which you will probably want eventually.
You could make a Silksworn Occultist, they throw in most of their martial ability to be better casters and their implements are always fine clothes.
They get more spells known, more spells per day, higher DCs and more Focus points built into their class to make them more caster focused and they benefit from the Kitsune's bonus to Charisma way more than the normal occultist would.
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You could make a Silksworn Occultist, they throw in most of their martial ability to be better casters and their implements are always fine clothes.
They get more spells known, more spells per day, higher DCs and more Focus points built into their class to make them more caster focused and they benefit from the Kitsune's bonus to Charisma way more than the normal occultist would.
+1 for the caster build! Unfortunately this doesn't work with Fox Shape since spellcasting becomes Arcane (so verbal and somatic components apply).
However this post reminded me that Occultists are Int-based, not Cha, which is still amazing since Kitsunes recently got a new alternate racial trait which gives them +2 Int rather than +2 Cha :D
Meh I made a Gnome one, you need a fairly generous point buy but it can still work, since if you go full caster their secondary stat is Cha.
with a 20pb you can have this
8,12,12,17,10,16
with a 25pb you can probably swing an 18 in int.
although swapping in the int for Cha would be better if the OP is allowed/willing.
Thanks for the answers so far. I am thinking about putting points mainly in Intelligence and then Charisma and Dexterity. There are two guys in my group who love front line melee characters and I thought maybe I would be more of a full caster who uses a bow.
I also want to put points in Charisma because I find it a very useful stat for the way I play (and for some reason my group tends to use Charisma as a dump stat. The time I made a witch and her Charisma was 8, the group had a really rough time with things like diplomacy, bluff, etc. Plus, the players themselves aren't as diplomatic as I am (metagaming I suppose, but I have a way of coming up with interesting compromises and we can pull them off if my character can make the rolls).
I don't know what our point buy will be at all. My guess is 20 or 15 since that's what we used to build our other two parties (20 for the main party and 15 for our secondary party). The DM tends to throw a lot of stuff at us (but he's fair), so my guess would be 20 again.
I am not good with point buys since I never seem to come up with the same ideas as others. But with 20 points, I was thinking:
STR: 7 DEX: 13 CON: 10 INT: 19 WIS: 10 CHA: 16 (that's including the racial bonuses)
I am going to look into Silksworn. As a Kinsune with a bonus to charisma, that would seem like a natural connection since charisma is tied into focus. I might even change my points too based on that.
With 15 point
STR: 7 DEX: 12 CON: 9 INT: 19 WIS: 10 CHA: 14 (again, racial bonuses and minus added)
Definitly use the silksworn if you're thinking of being a caster, its a straight upgrade for caster occultists.
Silksworn's definitely the most caster-oriented archetype. It has a couple of downsides as far as your character goes - it's an arcane caster so armor is not a real option, and it doesn't use standard implements. Fancy or magic clothing instead of normal implements means a) no casting as a fox if you get fox shape, and b) you can't use panoplies.
If those downsides are too much another caster-helpful archetype is the Panoply Savant. The Mage's Paraphernalia panoply is a real bonus for a spellcaster, and you get further bonuses to using it. You'd be a metamagic specialist going this way.
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Silksworn's definitely the most caster-oriented archetype. It has a couple of downsides as far as your character goes - it's an arcane caster so armor is not a real option, and it doesn't use standard implements. Fancy or magic clothing instead of normal implements means a) no casting as a fox if you get fox shape, and b) you can't use panoplies.
The garment issue is easily solved by wearing clothes tailored for your fox shape (not a fox but still). Unfortunately the problem persists since in fox shape you can't cast spells with verbal or somatic components.
Thanks!
I may also see what other people play before I decide what kind of Occultist to build. If a couple of other people end up being full casters, I might back away from the Silksworn. I am mostly concerned about not having a healer for the group, so I might end up taking up that role.