Desecrated Lich


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Before becoming a lich just desecrate an alter for those extra hit points before you do your ritual. Its a drop in the bucket after what you spent on crafting a phylactery so you might as well. Its that simple.

Silver Crusade

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... and?


As a Lich is not created with the usual means (Animate Dead, Create Undead), it won´t work.
To repeat Risky: "... and?"


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Purple Overkill wrote:
As a Lich is not created with the usual means (Animate Dead, Create Undead), it won´t work.

Why not?

Desecrate wrote:
An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.

If the moment of a Lich's creation occurs within the effects of a Desecrate spell, I see no reason why they wouldn't get the hit point bonus.

Silver Crusade

Dasrak wrote:
Purple Overkill wrote:
As a Lich is not created with the usual means (Animate Dead, Create Undead), it won´t work.
Why not?

Because (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong), Liches are created entirely by DM fiat, there's not actually any rules detailing their creation (just basic phylactery functionality, etc) methods, so strictly speaking, they aren't really "created" undead. Sure, the DM can decide to apply extra hit points via desecration, but since Lich creation is entirely under the DMs purview anyway, they could add hit points just because.


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Isonaroc wrote:
Dasrak wrote:
Purple Overkill wrote:
As a Lich is not created with the usual means (Animate Dead, Create Undead), it won´t work.
Why not?
Because (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong), Liches are created entirely by DM fiat, there's not actually any rules detailing their creation (just basic phylactery functionality, etc) methods, so strictly speaking, they aren't really "created" undead. Sure, the DM can decide to apply extra hit points via desecration, but since Lich creation is entirely under the DMs purview anyway, they could add hit points just because.

There are rules for PCs to become liches. There is an occult ritual for it Eternal Apotheosis.

The ritual says that it is an example of a way for someone to become a lich, but there may be other ways as well. It is just one path.


Occult rituals aren't rules for PCs in the sense that a PC can go out and buy a published ritual and do what it allows. They're a new form of plot device provided to GMs, like artifacts.


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Sort of, there are rules for researching them. And while a DM may restrict their use, a DM can restrict the use of any other spell. (Yes technically they are spells). While they are more difficult to learn than normal spells (either through being taught or through independent research), this functionality still exists.


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I don't think it matters much what the specific rules (or lack thereof) are for creating a lich. The word "created" is not a technical term and does not refer to any specific game mechanic, but rather to the lich coming into existence as a lich. Whether the lich is created by an ability, a spell, a ritual, or by sheer force of DM fiat shouldn't matter; it's still created in the sense of the word, and if the creation event occurs in an area of a Desecrate spell it should get the bonus HP.


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graveknights have desecrate on their armor and treat it as an alter and are raised with the extra hp/other goodies why would a lich be any different


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I agree that they should get the bonus HP. But their situation is different from grave knigts slightly. Nothing in the description of the lich gives them a free always on desecrate/altar. If they want these they would need to come about them through some other means. (Probably trivial at the point where they are becoming a lich).


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Maybe they get extra hit points while their Phylactery is in a desecrated alter?

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