Build advice for a high dex low str Slayer


Advice

Dark Archive

Str 10, Dex 18

What feat chains, and what Slayer Talents would best benefit this character?

I'm thinking Ranged Combat mostly, but is it worth picking up Weapon Finesse and Combat Reflexes?

Thanks!


no and no.

weapon finesse alone could let you hit in melee, but you have no damage to make that worth it. only reason to go finesse if you work on getting dex to damage.

CR isn't good if you don't have a melee attack worth avoiding.


Low strength, high dex non-casters work as damage dealers in the following circumstances:

1) They get dex to damage with melee attacks (e.g. slashing grace, Unchained Rogues)

2) They have static bonuses to damage from things like a fighter's Trained Grace or a vigilante's Lethal Grace

3) They have an attack that is itself massively damaging, like a Kinetic Blast/Blade/Whip

4) They take five levels of Gunslinger.

Dark Archive

Ok, What if I Slashing Grace (kukri), and then pick up Amateur Swashbuckler?

Dark Archive

I mean, since a Slayer gets a Talent at every even level, and one of the slayer talent options is Rogue's Combat Trick, which is any combat feat, and at 10 the Advanced Slayer talents include JUST TAKE A FEAT, My build can have UP TO 20 feats, with only like 5 locked into combat feats. Also Ranger combat style which would allow getting certain combat feats without prerequisites.

At this point the build is really really open, the only Absolute so far IMO is taking the Assassinate talent at 10 (Save or Die, but if you save still take normal damage + sneak attack).

So, that's 19 feats open still...


Kukri is a good weapon choice. Take a Buckler, pick up Slashing Grace, and go to town. Or, dip a level in Inspired Blade, take Fencing Grace and do the same with a Rapier, sparing yourself two feats.

Keep in mind you can only select the Combat Trick and Feat options only once, so you only get 2 feats, a Weapon Focus choice (already covered with the Inspired Blade if you go that route), and 3 Ranger Combat options. So, 16 feats, not 20. Still a lot, but they're pretty spread out, and have limited selection.

Combat Reflexes is only useful if you have a means to trigger your Attacks of Opportunity reliably. The most common of which involves using Reach weapons, or some other gimmick (such as the Bodyguard feat). Similarly, unless you take 5 levels of Bolt Ace, or use an Agile Light Throwing Shield with Ricochet Toss, Ranged Combat isn't an option either.

The Assassinate talent is a trap option because the DC scales based off of Intelligence. So, 10 + 5 + Intelligence = ~DC 17 (which is generous, by the way), which by 10th level is a complete joke to make. Having a 5% chance to outright kill an enemy isn't really worth the talent. Stuff like Evasion is a lot more helpful, especially with you being so Dexterity-based like you are now.


getting slashing grace helps, but that's only if you're going melee build. It's not worth all the investment if you're planning on doing ranged.
But slashing grace for a melee build will at least let you have a decent attack to use.


I played as a high dex low str Eldrich Archer Magus and was the primary damage dealer of the party. Getting full attacks every turn bumps up your DPR significantly.

Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Deadly Aim and Clustered Shot are great for getting more damage in. Deadly Aim only if you find yourself consistently overhitting against AC.

Slayers get access to a combat style. Archery or Crossbow combat styles give you access to several good feats without meeting requirements.

I would advise against splitting focus, it would require too much of an investment.

Dark Archive

1 Feat Weapon Finesse
2 Talent Weapon Focus (Kukri)
3 Feat Slashing Grace (Kukri)
4 Talent Ranger Combat Style (Two-handed Weapon [Power Attack])
5 Feat Combat Reflexes
6 Talent x 2 Ranger Combat Style (Two-handed Weapon [Great Cleave]), Rogue Talent (Bleeding Attack)
7 Feat Extra Slayer Talent (Rogue Talent [Surprise Attack])
8 Talent Improved Critical (Kukri)
9 Feat Critical Focus
10 Talent Assasinate
11 Feat Bleeding Critical
12 Talent x 2 Rogue Adv Talent(Hunter's Surprise), Rogue Adv Talent (Opportunist)

The bonus talents at 6 and 12 are from racial favored class bonus

Edit: I messed this up badly, because I didn't realize you couldn't take Combat Trick multiple times...

Dark Archive

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


Keep in mind you can only select the Combat Trick and Feat options only once, so you only get 2 feats, a Weapon Focus choice (already covered with the Inspired Blade if you go that route), and 3 Ranger Combat options.

Oh, oh damn. Okay, yeah, that changing things around a bit.

Dark Archive

Huh, nevermind, apparently my feat/talent build worked just fine, I hadn't actually multi used Combat Trick yet! Or rather, Weapon Focus is available through another available Rogue Talent...

1 Feat Weapon Finesse
2 Talent Rogue Talent (Weapon Training [Kukri])
3 Feat Slashing Grace (Kukri)
4 Talent Ranger Combat Style (Two-handed Weapon [Power Attack])
5 Feat Combat Reflexes
6 Talent x 2 Ranger Combat Style (Two-handed Weapon [Great Cleave]), Rogue Talent (Bleeding Attack)
7 Feat Extra Slayer Talent (Rogue Talent [Surprise Attack])
8 Talent Rogue Talent (Combat Trick [Improved Critical {kukri}])
9 Feat Critical Focus
10 Talent Assassinate
11 Feat Bleeding Critical
12 Talent x 2 Rogue Adv Talent(Hunter's Surprise), Rogue Adv Talent (Opportunist)


I played this:

Human, LN
Str8, Dex16+2race, Con12, Int14, Cha10, Cha14
Traits: Freed Slave, Killer (fencer would be soo much better but I went with Killer for BG reasons)

LV1: Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade)
-finesse (automatic)
-weapon focus (bonus)
-Fencing Grace
-Dodge (Human Bonus)

LV2-7: Slayer (Stygian)
-Combat Reflexes (LV3)
-Power Attack (Slayer2, Torag faithful style)
-Accomplished Sneak Attacker (LV5)
-Lunge (LV7)
-Trapfinding (Slayer6)
-Weapon Trick One-Handed (afcb Slayerx6 -> rogue talent -> combat trick)

Then I got 1 level of sleuth investigator and 3 levels of Shadowdancer Asap

Final build would be
swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1 / Investigator (sleuth) 1 / Slayer (stygian) 15 / Shadowdancer3

More feats I had got:
Improved Critical, Shield Focus, Mobility, Spring Attack
Talent (from shadowdancer) Offensive Defense

More feats I was considering for this character (cannot get everything, must make choices):
-Frightening Ambush + Hurtful (extra attack when spring attacking)
This works best with Shatter Defenses so it would need adjustments
-Outslug style chain (even more movement)
-Spring-Heeled style chain

Important equipment:
-Fortuitous Rapier
-Blue Scarf
(gives reach of 15ft during your turn, 10 ft oustide)

How to play this guy:
Use stealth, go into melee, poke enemies to death, dodge, punish enemies for attacking you extremely heavily (riposte+weapon trick+fortuitous), prevent full attacks by moving away, hide in plain sight wile using dodging panache, reap benefits.
If you go by the Hurtful mini-combo, then leave cover, attack unaware opponent, intimidate, get extra attack immediately, complete movement, hide again while you're getting away by using HipS as part of movement

It was a lot of fun.

NOTE: you can do MUCH better than this with a little optimization, but I was adamant about being Lawful and I didn't want to take dips that would feel out of character.
However, his damage output was respectable to say the leas:
thanks to his great mobility on the battlefield, including reactive mobility, positioning, the ability to riposte and get extra attacks and attack multiple opponeents without moving...
despite that his max dpr (especially during his own turn) was lower than (i.e) a 2handed fighter, he had more chances to get closer to his max DpR (especially out of his own turn) so the average DpR was actually pretty good (at least according to "benchmark" charts)
Playing "smart" with tactical positiong to maximize extra attacks, and minimze damage taken, all while wasting enemies actions, was extremely satisfying to me.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The Assassinate talent is a trap option because the DC scales based off of Intelligence. So, 10 + 5 + Intelligence = ~DC 17 (which is generous, by the way), which by 10th level is a complete joke to make. Having a 5% chance to outright kill an enemy isn't really worth the talent. Stuff like Evasion is a lot more helpful, especially with you being so Dexterity-based like you are now.

Slayers get to add their Studied Target bonus to Assassinate (and any other talent with a DC). That's +3 at 10th level.

This doesn't mean it's necessarily a good pick, but it's a lot better than the Assassin's Death Attack.

Slayers are a class that can benefit from dips, mainly because most of the talents are lackluster. Two levels of Shadowdancer gives you quite a bit. Three levels of UnRogue let you get Dex-to-damage, evasion, a rogue talent, and one more sneak attack die than you get from the three levels of slayer.


Pure Slayers aren't great at finesse builds. You should just go pure archery. Pick up snapshot if you want to switch hit.

If you want to start doing dips for a finesse build then you can make it work.

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