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I'm just running through a build I have written down and wanting to know what everyone's thoughts on it are. It probably won't out-do most Wild Shape builds but it has a "San" from Princess Mononoke feel to it.
Class – Nature Fang Druid
Race – Half-Orc
Deity - Gozreh
Nature Bond - Feather Subdomain
Animal Companion - Lion, Wolf, or Axe Beak?
Traits -
* Transmuter of Korada (magic)
* Almost Human (race)
Stats -
Str: 10
Dex: 16 (+2 racial)
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 8
0, 10, 5, 2, 5, -2 (20pt build)
1) Druid 1: Bab +0 | Pass for Human (lvl 1)
2) Druid 2: Bab +1 |
3) Druid 3: Bab +2 | Weapon Finesse (lvl 3)
4) Druid 4: Bab +3 | Aspect of the Beast: Claws of the Beast (talent), +1 Dex
5) Druid 5: Bab +3 | Boon Companion (lvl 5)
6) Druid 6: Bab +4 | Trap Spotter (talent)
7) Druid 7: Bab +5 | Accomplished Sneak Attacker (lvl 7)
8) Druid 8: Bab +6/+1 | Trapfinding (talent), +1 Dex
9) Druid 9: Bab +6/+1 | Lunge (lvl 9)
10) Druid 10: Bab +7/+2 | Multiattack (talent)
11) Druid 11: Bab +8/+3 | Divine Interference (lvl 11)
Almost Human trait and Pass for Human feat are there to mechanically be disguised at all times as a Human. I'm not a fan of looking Green and Orc'ish so having a +20 Disguise and being able to take 10 in most areas means only the GM really knows that I'm not a human. ;)
Went the Dex route to help shore up low AC and bad Reflex save. Will cost me an Agile AoMF to regain my dmg but I figure this will help me from spreading my stats too thin or drastically tanking stats.
Attacks:
Primary Bite (toothy orc trait)
Claw x2 (Aspect of the Beast: Claws of the Beast)
Gore (Helm of the Mammoth Lord)
Boon Companion to get my Animal Companion back to full level. Accomplished Sneak Attacker to raise SA to 2d6, animal companion makes for an easy flanking buddy. I added Trapfinding and Trap Spotter since Rogues are not entirely common in PFS, allows me to detect and disarm mundane/magical traps. Lunge for that extra range. Multiattack I'm thinking I don't need because all my attacks count as Primary?
So here's a few questions I have presently with a build like this.
1) What are the big Pros/Cons of Tiger, Wolf, or Axe Beak animal companions? I might pickup Teamwork feats and/or consider using my AC as a mount?
2) What changes would you make to help boost the effectiveness of this build?
3) Would you go with the stats listed or would or would you go with a 16 total STR and 14 Dex and focus on boosting STR instead?
Do you want to be a disguised half-orc or are you in it for the teeth? Because you can technically get those via the adopted trait. Humans have teeth to and your half-orc parents raised you to use them!
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Do you want to be a disguised half-orc or are you in it for the teeth? Because you can technically get those via the adopted trait. Humans have teeth to and your half-orc parents raised you to use them!
Mainly for the teeth, but Half-Orc also provides 60ft Darkvision. The racial Orc trait Toothy is a 1d4 primary bite attack. As a Human taking Adopted, I could pickup the Tusked race trait but it's a secondary attack when part of a full-attack. Which becomes a -5 attack penalty with going Human.
16 STR 14 DEX is to me the best way to go here too.
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Why not go tengu? They have great stats for Druids and can claw/claw/bite at first level without needing feats, traits, or items.
Playing a bird man works great mechanically but really pigeonholes you as a big bird. Character concept is for a character like Princess Mononoke or similar.
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If you wanna be San... how about this:
1. Be a LN Human
2. Forget Bite attacks! Take Spirit Oni Master at level 3. This grants you San's mask, and a gore attack. Since this uses your head, it removes the possibility of a bite attack, but it grants you a third natural attack to go with your Aspect of the Beast claws.
3. S16 D14 plz.
4. Replace the bonus feat with Eye for Talent to give your Wolf companion some extra juice.
5. For your first feat... Toughness always works.
6. Later on you could totally pick up Poison Use as a Slayer talent if you so wanted.
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1) What are the big Pros/Cons of Tiger, Wolf, or Axe Beak animal companions? I might pickup Teamwork feats and/or consider using my AC as a mount?
- Tiger pounce and grab especially with airwalk make for a great damage dealer anticaster animal companion. Most melee creatures will resist grab eventually but casters will fall to it a lot. Grapple makes it easier for you to hit.
- Wolf triping will help your accuracy. Remember lot of things can't be tripped. But you have trip starting at level 1 which is nice.
- Axe beaks have reach. They make good lance mounts and help control the battle field more because of said reach.
2) What changes would you make to help boost the effectiveness of this build?
Go strength so you can free up some feats. Take Outflank, menacing amulet for your AC. Maybe Gang Up or Precise Strike and Coordinated Charge.
Percise strike is equal to accomplished sneak attacker but you and your AC get it.
Hat of diguise will cover you for looking human.
3) Would you go with the stats listed or would or would you go with a 16 total STR and 14 Dex and focus on boosting STR instead?
Strength for sure. Carry a two handed weapon for when you need to get through DR.
Since this uses your head, it removes the possibility of a bite attackThis is not true, you can have a bite and a gore.
You probably can, but being the same appendage, I can't see how you can use them simultaneously.
EDIT: Nevermind, you CAN have a Gore AND a Bite and use them simultaneously!
That only makes my proposed build better though :P
Just get the Ring of Bat Fangs for a nice gore + bite + 2 claw.
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If you wanna be San... how about this:
1. Be a LN Human
2. Forget Bite attacks! Take Spirit Oni Master at level 3. This grants you San's mask, and a gore attack. Since this uses your head, it removes the possibility of a bite attack, but it grants you a third natural attack to go with your Aspect of the Beast claws.
3. S16 D14 plz.
4. Replace the bonus feat with Eye for Talent to give your Wolf companion some extra juice.
5. For your first feat... Toughness always works.
6. Later on you could totally pick up Poison Use as a Slayer talent if you so wanted.
Wow, Spirit Oni Master! Such a great idea and I also think it works great as a "San" character. Not 100% sure if I'm going to go the wolf route, since Tiger is such a strong choice and Axe Beak is practically a Chocobo that has 20ft reach with Animal Growth. Whatever it is, I'm gonna saddle it up and use it as a mount when possible.
Is the "Eye for Talent" REALLY worth it? Or am I better off just using that for another +2stat boost or as as teamwork feat?
Are the Trapspotter and Trapfinding choices ok? I honestly hardly see rogues or trap disablers in PFS, maybe it's a local thing, and I'm thinking it would be nice to be able to unlock crap and disable potentially deadly traps or alarms.
I definitely need to glance at the teamwork feats, I've never had a character that's used teamwork feats so I'm a bit out of the loop on them.
Poison use has been a hard to make effective thing in PFS, not sure if picking up Poison Use is even worth it for PFS.
Keep suggestions coming, this is definitely giving me some good ideas to improve my build. :)
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Wolfs are pretty great because tripping dudes grants you extra damage. But really go with whatever you want.
Eye for Talent is pretty neat.
Personally I don't really like Animal Companions for PFS because you never know when you'll have a party with too many melee, where your animal will just overcomplicate the frontline. Even if you end up being the only melee in the party, having 3 casters behind you is much better than having 4 people trying to swarm an enemy through a tight space. Plus, if it's 3 casters in the party and you, you can always use SNA to get some extra buddies.
I'd personally take the Cave Domain rather than an Animal Companion. I just really like having Tremorsense.
This allows you something like:
Dual Talent Human
S15+2 D14 C14 I12 W14+2 CH7
LV1. Toughness
LV3. Spirit Oni Master
LV4. Aspect of the Beast, +1 STR
LV5. Accomplished Sneak Attacker
LV6. Trapfinding (well-worth it)
LV7. Lunge
And the rest as you see fit.
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Thoughts on the updated build?
Class – Nature Fang Druid
Race – Human (Shoanti)
Deity - Gozreh
Nature Bond - Feather Subdomain
Traits -
* Transmuter of Korada (magic)
* Shoanti Tattoo (race)
Stats -
Str: 14 (+2 racial)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 8
5, 5, 5, 2, 5, -2
1) Druid 1: Bab +0 | Retrain to Trapfinding (lvl 1)
2) Druid 2: Bab +1 |
3) Druid 3: Bab +2 | Spirit Oni Master (lvl 3)
4) Druid 4: Bab +3 | Aspect of the Beast: Claws of the Beast (talent), +1 Dex
5) Druid 5: Bab +3 | Boon Companion (lvl 5)
6) Druid 6: Bab +4 | Trap Spotter (talent)
7) Druid 7: Bab +5 | Outflank (lvl 7)
8) Druid 8: Bab +6/+1 | Rogue Talent – Combat Trick – Precise Strike (talent), +1 Wis
9) Druid 9: Bab +6/+1 | Lunge (lvl 9)
10) Druid 10: Bab +7/+2 | Accomplished Sneak Attacker (talent)
11) Druid 11: Bab +8/+3 | Divine Interference (lvl 11)
Didn't pickup Power Attack, figured it's better to keep my To-Hit high and let Greater Magic Fang + AoMF + Precise Strike + Accomplished Sneak Attacker boost my damage (+3d6 precision x4 natural attacks).
With the one trait free, I figure there's nothing better than Shoanti Tattoo to pickup proficiency with an Earth Breaker. Wasn't seeing many other traits that really stood out.
Any suggestions to improve things more?
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For your Slayer talent, I'd take a ranger combat style. Natural Weapon can give you rending claws, menacing can set up a shatter defenses build, underhanded can give dirty trick options.
Crocodile Domain is a great option, but the dwarf caimans familiar isn't as good of a combat pet as an animal companion.
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Lunge means you are not flanking for the turn so you may want to replace it. It is often better to just pin things down. You don't need trap spotter if you play cautiously. Just tell your gm you are looking for traps.
Animal domain, especially feather is better than the crocodile domain.
I like a beast totem eagle tattoo at some point for 2 more attack or flight when needed.
Focused mind, reactionary, guiding spirit are all good.
Also with this build your spell DCs increases against your studied target so pick up some single target spells because you will have decent dcs against one character.
Lenses of the Predator’s Gaze can boost this further.
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For your Slayer talent, I'd take a ranger combat style. Natural Weapon can give you rending claws, menacing can set up a shatter defenses build, underhanded can give dirty trick options.
Crocodile Domain is a great option, but the dwarf caimans familiar isn't as good of a combat pet as an animal companion.
As far as I'm aware, once you pick a Combat Style you can't select a different style to grab a feat from. Is this correct for PFS?
Yeah, I'd have to burn a feat to grab an improved familiar or take the Figment or Mauler archetype for my familiar.
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Yes, you choose a style and are locked in it. However, style feats ignore prerequisites, so you can get more powerful feats than you would from combat trick.
Ah ok, I misunderstood. In the build I'm already taking Natural combat style to gain "Aspect of the Beast: Claws of the Beast".
I was wondering how good dirty tricks is, I've never seen someone use DT in a PFS game during the 4 years I've played.
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If you want Dirty Trick on your build you want to get to quick dirty trick asap.
Ususally Dirty Fighting > Imporved Dirty Trick > Quick Dirty Trick > Greater Dirty Trick
It is a lot of feats to invest but I would consider it the second best comabt manuver. You can really start stacking conditions with this feat chain. I have seen a couple of builds that work well.
I love familiars, a dwarf caiman is a decent mauler, many improved familiars are awesome, but never under estimate a protector familiar for the single best increase to defenses.
Don't take Precise Strike. It's a teamwork feat relying on the fact that your flanking partner also has this feat. How realistic is that?