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Alright so I have a character with natural claw attacks and a bite attack. Right now when he does a full attack action each is at +5.
But, I'd really like to do bludgeoning damage on all three attacks, not just the bite.
So, could I take unarmed strike to turn my claw attacks into punches? Would my bonus still be at +5? Or would my bite attack then become a secondary attack?
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Unarmed Stike is not a Natural Attack. You can make your normal iterative attacks with an unarmed strike, and also make attacks with your claws and your bite, but your claws and bite would both be secondary attacks if you do.
Also, Claws already do bludgeoning damage. Claws are B&S, and Bites are B&P&S.
I can't help but think that things would have been simpler if unarmed attacks were just slams. But that's not how the rules are written.
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Unarmed Stike is not a Natural Attack. You can make your normal iterative attacks with an unarmed strike, and also make attacks with your claws and your bite, but your claws and bite would both be secondary attacks if you do.
Also, Claws already do bludgeoning damage. Claws are B&S, and Bites are B&P&S.
So I could make claw attacks and unarmed strike attacks in the same turn? That seems ridiculous. (Like good not bad. Didn't mean to sound offensive.)
I always though Claws were P&S. I had no clue they were bludgeoning.
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An unarmed strike can be with any part of your body. Punches, kicks, head butts, shoulder checks, pelvic thrusts, whatever. A snake with no limbs can still make an unarmed strike via a head butt or a tail poke. Since an unarmed strike can be any part of the body, it doesn't have to use your hands, and you can still make claw attacks with each arm.
The poor hedgehog doesn't have any attacks and so it is assumed to rely on unarmed strikes to do damage.
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here is the PRD link to the natural attack damage types (scroll down, it's alphabetical, under "natural attacks").
Alright so I have a character with natural claw attacks and a bite attack. Right now when he does a full attack action each is at +5.
How did you get that bonus? All beings with some sort of natural weapons have a primary natural attack, no matter how many attacks they have, the attack made with the primary natural weapon have full attack bonus+full STR bonus and the other ones are secondary ones made with a -5 and half the STR bonus rounded down. Multiattack feat reduces the penalty only to -2. Is there an improved MA feat or something?
All beings with some sort of natural weapons have a primary natural attack...
Not exactly. If you only have one attack and it's secondary, then you count it as a primary attack. But if you have multiple secondary attacks, then they are all secondary. The hoof attacks of the horse are a good example of this.
I have a character that does the Unarmed strike + Natural attack combo. It's pretty good, just remember that the Natural Attacks in that instance become secondary so they get a -5 to hit and only 1/2 STR for damage.
EX: BAB=+3 and STR modifier = +2
Would give you:
+5 Kick(or headbutt, just nothing with arms) 1d3+2, +0 Bite 1d6+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1
How did you get that bonus? All beings with some sort of natural weapons have a primary natural attack, no matter how many attacks they have, the attack made with the primary natural weapon have full attack bonus+full STR bonus and the other ones are secondary ones made with a -5 and half the STR bonus rounded down. Multiattack feat reduces the penalty only to -2. Is there an improved MA feat or something?Alright so I have a character with natural claw attacks and a bite attack. Right now when he does a full attack action each is at +5.
Not quite. All Natural Weapons are given a classification of either Primary or Secondary, see the Natural Attacks By Size chart. If you only have 1 natural attack it always uses your Full BAB and 1-1/2 Str. If you attack with any weapons that round in addition to your natural attacks then all natural attacks become secondary attacks.
Natural Attacks: If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.
Natural Attacks: Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
Natural Attacks: Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.
Unarmed Strikes:Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat).
Unarmed Attacks:Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon,
Natural Attack: You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
1: I can still do an unarmed strike if I have no hands by using something like a headbut.
2: Therefore I can do an unarmed strike if I DO have hands by using something like a headbut.
3: a Monk can do this as a special gimmick but that is just restating rules that anybody can do and it is totally not an exclusive ability...
I have a character that does the Unarmed strike + Natural attack combo. It's pretty good, just remember that the Natural Attacks in that instance become secondary so they get a -5 to hit and only 1/2 STR for damage.
EX: BAB=+3 and STR modifier = +2
Would give you:
+5 Kick(or headbutt, just nothing with arms) 1d3+2, +0 Bite 1d6+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1
Interesting, since monks can't make flurry+multi-natural attack at the same time anymore I thought that they had to choose between using iterative attacks (a combination of US and NA) or the multiattack option. Splinter Sensei ftw?
Edit// I deleted some text because I was misunderstanding a few things.
How did you get that bonus? All beings with some sort of natural weapons have a primary natural attack, no matter how many attacks they have, the attack made with the primary natural weapon have full attack bonus+full STR bonus and the other ones are secondary ones made with a -5 and half the STR bonus rounded down. Multiattack feat reduces the penalty only to -2. Is there an improved MA feat or something?Alright so I have a character with natural claw attacks and a bite attack. Right now when he does a full attack action each is at +5.
This isn't how pathfinder works.
Pathfinder limits natural attacks as being primary (like claws and bits) or secondary (tails and hooves). So if all of your natural attacks are primary natural weapons then they are all at full bab and full str. Which is the case here since he has claws and a bite.
How did you get that bonus? All beings with some sort of natural weapons have a primary natural attack, no matter how many attacks they have, the attack made with the primary natural weapon have full attack bonus+full STR bonus and the other ones are secondary ones made with a -5 and half the STR bonus rounded down. Multiattack feat reduces the penalty only to -2. Is there an improved MA feat or something?Alright so I have a character with natural claw attacks and a bite attack. Right now when he does a full attack action each is at +5.
This isn't how pathfinder works.
Pathfinder limits natural attacks as being primary (like claws and bits) or secondary (tails and hooves). So if all of your natural attacks are primary natural weapons then they are all at full bab and full str. Which is the case here since he has claws and a bite.
Oh, I didn't knew that, thanks a lot!
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I was trying to say the same but with different words. Guess I failed horribly in explaining myslef. So thanks for making it more clear!
Interesting, since monks can't make flurry+multi-natural attack at the same time anymore I thought that they had to choose between using iterative attacks (a combination of US and NA) or the multiattack option. Splinter Sensei ftw?I have a character that does the Unarmed strike + Natural attack combo. It's pretty good, just remember that the Natural Attacks in that instance become secondary so they get a -5 to hit and only 1/2 STR for damage.
EX: BAB=+3 and STR modifier = +2
Would give you:
+5 Kick(or headbutt, just nothing with arms) 1d3+2, +0 Bite 1d6+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1
Monks can not flurry and use natural weapons, but there is no restrictions on using normal iterative attacks and natural weapons, or using TWF and natural weapons. If you have improved Unarmed strike, TWF, and a claw/claw/bite, you can kick/kick/claw/claw/bite in a full attack, applying appropriate penalties for TWF and secondary weapons.
Monks can not flurry and use natural weapons, but there is no restrictions on using normal iterative attacks and natural weapons, or using TWF and natural weapons. If you have improved Unarmed strike, TWF, and a claw/claw/bite, you can kick/kick/claw/claw/bite in a full attack, applying appropriate penalties for TWF and secondary weapons.I was trying to say the same but with different words. Guess I failed horribly in explaining myslef. So thanks for making it more clear!
Interesting, since monks can't make flurry+multi-natural attack at the same time anymore I thought that they had to choose between using iterative attacks (a combination of US and NA) or the multiattack option. Splinter Sensei ftw?I have a character that does the Unarmed strike + Natural attack combo. It's pretty good, just remember that the Natural Attacks in that instance become secondary so they get a -5 to hit and only 1/2 STR for damage.
EX: BAB=+3 and STR modifier = +2
Would give you:
+5 Kick(or headbutt, just nothing with arms) 1d3+2, +0 Bite 1d6+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1, +0 Claw 1d4+1
+1 on this