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Hello everyone,
I've been trying to put together a 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' inspired character based around the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch for PFS.
I was hoping to find an archetype for a divine class that would allow it to throw bombs but have not had any luck yet.
So far I'm looking at the following build and was hoping to get some feedback. The purpose of the build is to be comical, functional, but does not have to be min/maxed.
Brother Maynard of Antioch
Human Mindchemist X
1: Point Blank, Precise Shot
2: Tumor Familiar ("That's no ordinary" Rabbit of Caerbannog, +4 initiative "Run Away!")
3: Extra Discovery (Precise Bomb)
4: Infusion
5: Splash Weapon Mastery
6: Wings (bird/Angel)
7: Rapid Shot
8: Fast Bombs
9: Extra Discovery (Force Bomb)
10: Explosive Bomb?
11: Improved Initiative/Iron Will?
I'd like the character to provide a lot of support to the party (knowledge, infusions, etc) as well as be able to chuck potent bombs. I'm actually tempted to avoid fast bombs (sacrilege I know!) just because tossing multiple bombs per round seems to cheapen the 'gravitas' of the Holy Hand Grenade.
For the familiar, an emissary or sage would be practical and in line with my intended role although a mauler rabbit would be hilarious... and rather fragile.
Thoughts?
Precise bomb isn't very Monthy Python. These bombs should blast everything and everyone to hell. I don't think a "rabbit" familiar fits well either. If anything, you should seek to do extra damage to animals! Pick up Knowledge (religion), maybe take a level of paladin/cleric/monk, and use other "holy reliquaries" such as wands and scrolls.
I am currently playing my 2nd alchemist. The first was only for three sessions and had all thee typical ranged attack feats. When I began playing my next one, I was also playing an archer in another game and so decided to not take any of those feats. This one is a little more melee oriented The friendly fire has irked party members a couple of times, but thats mostly due to a session with an abundance of bad rolls.
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This discovery absolutely needs to be a thing for your build.
Holy Bomb Seems fitting for a "Holy" Hand Grenade.
Force bombs of course is very nice. As is Tangle foot bombs.
I feel if your going to be bombing you might as well look at the Grenadier Archetype. I had lots of fun with it when I played a bomber type. The bombs I used was: Tangle foot, Explosive, Curse, and Force bombs. I did take Frost bombs and then retrained it because I did not like the return on it. It is good but in the campaign I was in it was kind of a flop.
Also Hedge hog would be best familiar to up your Will saves. Being Dex based tends to be enough once you pick up the Initiative boosting items.
Ninja'ed by Redblade by 60 seconds
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This discovery absolutely needs to be a thing for your build.
Have you considered sacrament alchemist?
This is precisely why I wanted to reach out for advice. Great Finds!
I completely agree that holy bombs should be in the build. It provides a thematic and great alternative to frost bombs for staggering enemies.
Sacrament Alchemist is definitely an interesting archetype. The lost class features aren't too painful although the -2 dex penalty with the sacramental cognatogen stings a bit. I'm not familiar enough with many of the cleric (sub)domains to really gauge the full potential of this trade off. Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to go through Archives of Nethys to see what options there are.
Re: Ciaran, you raise some excellent points. In regards to the rabbit familiar, I suppose it becomes a question of whether or not I want the character to reference many facets of Monty Python or try to just emulate one specific character to the best of my ability. I really like the holy reliquaries idea! I'm even happy re-skinning arcane buffs as some form of comical holy ritual like 'Sir Lancelot's Protection' (Shield) - "Keeping you safe from even a little bit of peril". I definitely appreciate the sentiment on precise bombs but, particularly in a PFS environment, friendly fire could be a sticking point. On the other hand, it could make the use of bombs less frequent thereby more special as well as emphasize the power of the holy hand grenade in blowing everything to tiny bits.
Re: Louise, the grenadier is undoubtedly a great archetype and can provide many great opportunities for control with alchemical weapons. Additionally, the hedgehog is also a strong choice for a familiar mechanically. However, shy of referring to the hedgehog as Spiny Norman, I worry that these drift a bit from the initial intention of the build. Although there is certainly something to be said for a holy bomb explosive missile ...
Re: Ciaran, I definitely appreciate the sentiment on precise bombs but, particularly in a PFS environment, friendly fire could be a sticking point. On the other hand, it could make the use of bombs less frequent thereby more special as well as emphasize the power of the holy hand grenade in blowing everything to tiny bits.
Well you're right of course. I wasn't really pushing you away from that, just going on a tangent. Of course precise bombs and ranged combat feats are a smart choice. If you have the patience for another tangent with a MP twist, you may appreciate this lumberjack class I wrote. I also have a not-quite-finished "enchanter" class, and ideas for an unwritten "knight" class
This discovery absolutely needs to be a thing for your build.Have you considered sacrament alchemist?This is precisely why I wanted to reach out for advice. Great Finds!
I completely agree that holy bombs should be in the build. It provides a thematic and great alternative to frost bombs for staggering enemies.
Sacrament Alchemist is definitely an interesting archetype. The lost class features aren't too painful although the -2 dex penalty with the sacramental cognatogen stings a bit. I'm not familiar enough with many of the cleric (sub)domains to really gauge the full potential of this trade off. Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to go through Archives of Nethys to see what options there are.
Re: Ciaran, you raise some excellent points. In regards to the rabbit familiar, I suppose it becomes a question of whether or not I want the character to reference many facets of Monty Python or try to just emulate one specific character to the best of my ability. I really like the holy reliquaries idea! I'm even happy re-skinning arcane buffs as some form of comical holy ritual like 'Sir Lancelot's Protection' (Shield) - "Keeping you safe from even a little bit of peril". I definitely appreciate the sentiment on precise bombs but, particularly in a PFS environment, friendly fire could be a sticking point. On the other hand, it could make the use of bombs less frequent thereby more special as well as emphasize the power of the holy hand grenade in blowing everything to tiny bits.
Re: Louise, the grenadier is undoubtedly a great archetype and can provide many great opportunities for control with alchemical weapons. Additionally, the hedgehog is also a strong choice for a familiar...
Do not forget about a hybridization Funnel. You can mix things like...Holy water and Alchemist fire and have the ability to throw small amounts of Gold at problems. Smashing that into the face of an undead will certainly have a good effect. But the best part is you can pass them out at the beginning of the Dungeon and have a group strategy for an opening volley of holy fire against enemies that would be weak to the combination. My group Loved Acid Flask + A. Fire for a cheap answer to swarms.
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If you have the patience for another tangent with a MP twist, you may appreciate this lumberjack class I wrote. I also have a not-quite-finished "enchanter" class, and ideas for an unwritten "knight" class
I was actually starting to sing the song in my head reading your intro to the lumberjack class! Definitely a fun read. Please give my regards to Tim when you've finished with the enchanter class. I'd been entertaining the idea of a Black Knight build, possibly as a Stalwart Defender with Vital Strike.
In terms of a custom class, I could see an ability like 'Inhuman Staunching - the black knight takes double bleed damage on the first round but then the bleed effect ends. If an enemy is adjacent during this effect, they must make a successful fort save or be sickened as they are bled upon'.
Thanks Louise for the reminder on the funnel. Definitely have all of the alchemical goodies marked down from other guides and threads.
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Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to go through Archives of Nethys to see what options there are.Take a look at this thread, it could provide some nice ideas.
Just wanted to follow up on this. Many thanks for all of the suggestions. I opted to try the sacrament alchemist given its seemingly tremendous versatility. I'm happy to report that after fast tracking the character from level 1 to 5 at a con last weekend, I'm fairly happy with the build. Many of the initial creatures I faced were resistant to fire so my bombs were of limited use for most of his adventures thus far. Going with Desna, the Bit of Luck (luck domain) still gave me a way to support the group in combat beyond firing a crossbow.
Now that I've got 3d6 bomb damage, explosive bombs, infusions, and divinely inspired alchemy to pick-up a temporary discovery (like acid bombs), I think the build is starting to come into its own. Avoron, your link was very helpful in deciding on domains/deity, thank you!
...My group Loved Acid Flask + A. Fire for a cheap answer to swarms.
I prefer Acid + Akali, IRL they cancel out, but not game mechanic wise.
Just have to worry about acid resistance, and a little bit cheaper.Also, remember you can craft the items if you have down time at 1/3rd cost (between scenarios in PFS) meaning acid/alkali costs 8.33gp per set!
I no longer play PFS.
Yes I typically made the alchemical items. I did it because most people without looking know what both an Alchemist Flask and a Acid Flask do. only my character played with all the more unique items like Burst Jars ext ext.
If only you got a familiar another way...
I would suggest the improved familiar: almiraj -- a rabbit with a unicorn horn.
An alternative to the Mauler archetype is the Figment archetype. Then when it gets killed, it is back the next day. As you gain levels, it gains dream inspired [eidolon] evolutions. Could be great.
/cevah