Best feat to take for options later on


Advice


For a character with full BAB, what would be the best feat for one to take if they don't know what they want and just want to have a lot of options? Could go melee, two handed weapon, one handed weapon, throw weapon or ranged.

Stats
Str: 17
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wil: 7
Cha: 14

Consideration so far:
Two weapons fighting, Barroom Brawler, weapon Finesse, dodge

Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.


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Power attack. Seriously. Power attack.

Liberty's Edge

Personally I think a full BAB character with 7 Wis, even a Paladin, should be looking at Iron Will.

It won't help your options but it will help make sure you don't turn those options on your friends when something attempts to Dominate you.


Power Attack is just so basic to melee builds, and is useful from 1st level all the way up, that you need a very good reason to be taking anything else.

Iron Will is certainly very useful but maybe not critical at first level (people can throw sleep and charm at you, but not yet dominate or hold person). It opens up Improved Iron Will, allowing you to reroll 1/day, which can be very nice later on.


Yes, start with Power Attack. Not too many enemies should target your Will save at lower levels and lower level will saves are not often that critical. It's a good choice for later anyway.


I wouldn't worry about will saves at first level, I mean the only big will saves you have to worry about are color spray and charm person. Color Spray can't make you attack your friends. Charm person makes you consider the caster your ally, but it doesn't make you think your allies are you enemies so I'd be hard pressed to see how it could do anything more than get you to stand their distressed as your friends kill eachother.

So yeah will saves making you kill your friends is in my opinion not a huge worry till about level 8 or 9 when people start to pick up Dominate Person.


Improved initiative. If melee is wanted, PA or combat reflexes.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Beopere wrote:
Improved initiative. If melee is wanted, PA or combat reflexes.

Going first gives you more options than reacting to the actions of those that have gone before you. Improved Initiative is a solid option for all kinds of combatants: melee, ranged, spellcaster, buffer, blaster, controller, summoning. The only build that doesn't really benefit from going first is a super-dedicated healer; you can't heal the unwounded.

Other than that, selecting a feat that is the prerequisite for lots of other feats is also a solid choice: Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus.


Leadership?...


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Beopere wrote:
Improved initiative. If melee is wanted, PA or combat reflexes.

With a 17 dex, I'd definitely go with Power Attack first and leave the Improved Initiative for later. You want to go before the bad guys, yes, but you also want to go after your own party's buffers/battlefield control. Yes, it's easy enough to delay, but why shut yourself off from extra damage so early? Especially at low levels, surviving your opponents' initial barrage isn't too hard.


At low levels, Power Attack often makes the difference between killing enemies in a single blow or in a couple of them.

An enemy with 1 HP left is still dealing damage. A fallen enemy doesn't, so being able to take enemies with the fewer blows possible is also a way of avoiding taking damage.

Power Attacking with a two handed weapon and 17 strength is alone +7 to damage. That damage falls into +4 without Power Attack. That makes a pretty solid option.

Grand Lodge

I may be the only one to say nay against Power Attack, as great as it is early- later the game when you're pulling a -3 to hit, can mean the difference between ending an encounter and the encounter ending you.
Get Vital Strike, instead of Power Attack when able. Get the double damage with sacrifice to hit chance.

Blindfight.
At higher levels, you will run into enemies that opt into throwing Darkness and Deeper Darkness to really put a hinder on all sorts of builds. Or in the worse case, just whammy you with Blindness/Deafness.
Blindfight gives you several benefits: 1> moving full speed in darkness/blinded, 2> not flatfooted in darkness/blinded, 3> can respond to AoO's in darkness/blinded, and possibly the best one: reroll miss chance vs concealment.
Damn wizard, in the darkness bubble, also has Displacement up? roll again!


With full BAB classes I've never seen Power Attack be an issue. You'll be hitting almost everything anyway,and even failing your last iterative attack is not a big deal when you're dealing a lot more damage with your main ones.
Even with 3/4 BAB classes Power Attack is a sure hit if you have some way to lower enemy's AC or rise your attack.
As I love playing the buffer/debuffer type and we almost always have one in our groups, everybody is delivering sure hits.

IMHO it doesn't get worse later in the game but better.
When you have iterative attacks it's better than Vital Strike and when DR starts being common you need to hit hard.

At a -3 attack penalty (that I found to be affordable even in 3/4 BAB classes as long as you have some help there), in a critical hit (with a keen falchion that should happen quite often) and with just 18 STR (easy to get even without items), you'll be adding +30 to damage. Without Power Attack it would be just +12. Without counting any enhancement bonuses.
Even in a non critical hit the difference (+15/+6) is obvious.
With a creature with DR 10 it's the difference from dealing almost no damage and dealing a fair ammount of it.


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Thanks for all the advice.

As for Power Attack, I took it straight away because it was obvious I need to get through low levels or have melee options open later on.

However, feat-wise, which feat will open up a lot of options for more feats later on?

Once again, thank you.


If you already have Power Attack I'd stay away from TWF because you'll be getting more benefit from wielding a two handed weapon (unless you want to be a TWF for a roleplaying reason).

If you have a buffer with you, I wouldn't pick still Improved Initiative because you'll probably want to be buffed first before attacking. Also, being the first to charge to battle is not always a good option, as being the only on melee range with the enemies will earn you some hits.

Iron Will, again, better for later, as now it's not so important.

Weapon Finesse, you just don't need it.

The Dodge/Mobility, etc. chain sounds too feat investing to be an interesting option.

What class are you playing? Because your best options can differ from one class to another.


Kileanna wrote:

If you already have Power Attack I'd stay away from TWF because you'll be getting more benefit from wielding a two handed weapon (unless you want to be a TWF for a roleplaying reason).

If you have a buffer with you, I wouldn't pick still Improved Initiative because you'll probably want to be buffed first before attacking. Also, being the first to charge to battle is not always a good option, as being the only on melee range with the enemies will earn you some hits.

Iron Will, again, better for later, as now it's not so important.

Weapon Finesse, you just don't need it.

The Dodge/Mobility, etc. chain sounds too feat investing to be an interesting option.

What class are you playing? Because your best options can differ from one class to another.

I'm just playing bloodrager, but I don't care about optimizing, I just want to be able to have a lot of options later on for whatever style I will find cool. And I can't retrain in this game I'm playing, so I need feats that can open up to the most amount of feats options in the future.


I'm not a heavy optimizer either, but have in mind that options are only real options when you have some degree of efectivity with them, so my suggestion is to pick some of your favorite options and focus on them instead of trying to be able to focus on everything.
Being open to pick a lot of feats is not so cool if you think that you wouldn't be able to pick them all but only a bunch of them.
Power Attack is already a prerrequisite for some cool combat maneuvers.
Maybe you could pick already some of that combat maneuvers, maybe even Cleave that would allow you picking some different style in combat.
Combat reflexes could allow you to pick later some cool options to take advantage of AoO. I think this one might be close to what you're looking for.


Agreeing with Kileanna. Power Attack first and Combat Reflexes second makes for a solid source of extra attacks at extra damage.


Since you have equal STR and DEX weapon finesse does not make sense. Any weapon you can use with weapon finesse can also be used normally. Weapon finesse would be a complete waste of a feat for this character.

Dodge is an ok feat but you have a good DEX so it becomes less important. It also does not scale up as you level up. It also does not open up very many options.

Barroom Bawler is very limited because it is only for 1 min once per day. To me this is too situational to waste an early feat.

Two weapon fighting is good, but locks you into using light weapons or the penalty to hit is just too debilitating.

Since you already have power attack I suggest improved sunder. This actually gives you more options than most other combat feat. Most combat feats simply allow you to kill your opponent quicker. Sunder can allow you to completely shut down some characters without harming them. Sundering a cleric’s holy symbol or an arcane spell casters spell component pouch severely limits what they can do. It also not only prevents you from taking an attack of opportunity when you sunder, but also gives you a +2 bonus vs other people trying to sunder your stuff. Latter you can pick up greater sunder and sundering strike.

Another option would be to go for intimidating powers and cornugon smash. Intimidating powers can also be used out of combat. Using intimidate to get people to act friendly also gives you an option besides killing them. True it does imply that you will kill them but you can often get what you want without actually having to kill them.


I like the Martial Master Fighter Archetype for versatility in Martial Flexibility. Brawler class also works, but I prefer the bonus feats personally.

You can specialize in a feat-hungrier chain like TWF, and still have options when you can't full-attack, which is the major criticism of TWF. Then you can actually use something like cleave without regretting the choice the whole time, or Vital Strike when the situation calls for it.


I have already took Power Attack and Combat Reflexes, I'm very solid in my normal two handed fighting. However, say I'm taking Barroom Brawler, what feat should I pick so I can make the most of Barroom Brawler in terms of options? Which feats leads to the most options if I can use Barroom Brawler?

Grand Lodge

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if you are dedicated to Two-Weapon fighting, you need Quick Draw.
You can only draw one weapon while moving, Quick Draw should allow to draw the second weapon without hindering your action economy.

I agree with Magehunter, you may want to consider the Martial Master archetype instead of getting Barroom Brawler. Getting Martial Flexibility as a bonus feat is better than Barroom Brawler.


Selvaxri wrote:

if you are dedicated to Two-Weapon fighting, you need Quick Draw.

You can only draw one weapon while moving, Quick Draw should allow to draw the second weapon without hindering your action economy.

I agree with Magehunter, you may want to consider the Martial Master archetype instead of getting Barroom Brawler. Getting Martial Flexibility as a bonus feat is better than Barroom Brawler.

I've been thinking about quick draw for a while. Gives me a lots of options combat wise. But feats-wise, not many choices.

As for classes, I really don't care about classes as I can't change class, nor it will matter as I just want to know which feat will lead to the highest number of feats options I can have if I am to take Barroom Brawler or need the options later on in game.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I used to think Quick Draw was a pretty weak feat, then I saw a switch hitter use it in action. S/he (he ALWAYS played female leather-clad ninja-types) would switch between melee and ranged really really well. It was pretty spectacular, actually.


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Dirty Fighting counts as having Combat Expertise, Int 13, Dex 13 and IUS for meeting pre-reqs for the improved maneuver feats. You can also use Dirty Fighting to perform maneuvers without provoking AoO's when flanking, even if you don't have the feats for them. That opens up a lot of options for you.

Grand Lodge

Martial master is a good option and it stacks with other fun archytypes.

If you want twf. Brawler or strangler brawler dip with the rest slayer work pretty well. Shield and kukri are my favourite combination. Shield master at level 6 makes twf affordable. More than that it makes it amazingly cost effective. You eventually get bashing finish and opportunist meaning huge damage.


Thanks for the advises so far, but changing classes isn't what I'm after here. I am looking for feats options that will lead to more feats. Like Power Attack will lead to a lot of feats as it is prerequisite for a lot of them, etc.

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