New Deity Speculation

[Michael7123]

We already know that there are some core deities from Pathfinder that have carried over into the core 20 deities of Starfinder's pact

Abadar

Desna

Iomedae

Pharasma

Sarenrae

Urgathoa

Zon-Kuthon

On top of this, we know of at least one deity that is completely new- an ascended AI that has given mortals the power to access the Drift, which is basically hyperspace.

Beyond that... we've got 12 open slots to fill that make up the core 20 deities of the Starfinder Pact Worlds. We also know from some of the various interviews that some of the more minor deities from standard pathfinder have been Promoted to core deities.

We don't have too much information on what those deities are. But it's always fun to speculate!

I want to say that Brigh is an obvious choice... but we do already know about a separate god who who seems to be based around technology, so there would be a lot of overlap if both were included.

I'd love to see Milani be elevated to a core deity... but that doesn't seem very likely. She doesn't seem like an easy fit for the setting..

Lissala could make a return, serving as a more "presentable" lawful evil deity than, you know, Zon Kuthon.

The chaotic evil core deities of this setting will probably more Cthulhu-ish than they were in Pathfinder. Hastur seems like a sensible choice to throw into the core.

What are your thoughts? It's always fun to speculate.

[Gratz]

I hope Asmodeus is still around, as he plays a central role in the creation of mortals and souls, and besides who doesn't like the prince of darkness?

Also, I hope that Casandalee from the Iron Gods will still be around. I know she will be in my game.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Maybe this setting has a Core 12 or Core 8 instead of a Core 20. Given the sci-fi thrust, I'd expect religion to play a lesser part than in a fantasy setting.

[David knott 242]

Gratz wrote:

I hope Asmodeus is still around, as he plays a central role in the creation of mortals and souls, and besides who doesn't like the prince of darkness?

Asmodeus, like most of the other old core 20, is still around -- he just isn't one of the core 20 any more. In his case, it could just mean that he is far more "popular" on Golarion than elsewhere in the solar system.

[Michael7123]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Maybe this setting has a Core 12 or Core 8 instead of a Core 20. Given the sci-fi thrust, I'd expect religion to play a lesser part than in a fantasy setting.

There has been info from various interviews that states that religion does play less of a role. At the same time, they have said that they have a core 20 deities.

[KingOfAnything]

Gratz wrote:

I hope Asmodeus is still around, as he plays a central role in the creation of mortals and souls, and besides who doesn't like the prince of darkness?

It's my theory that AbadarCorp started with an Infernal contract. Asmodeus may not be visible, but he will sure be present.

[QuidEst]

Daikitsu shows up greatly diminished in power over the years as a result of her role as a regional agricultural goddess of rice decreasing in significance. She's an NPC party member for an AP centered around travel and economics.

Spice and Wolf IN SPACE!

[Captain collateral damage]

Picks random gods and tries to fit them into the setting
Besmara: We need a god of SPAAAAACE pirates!

Elf pantheon: Considering the elves come from the same planet as the lashunta, we may see some of the elven pantheon. Maybe Yuelral has replaced Nethys (who has probably blown himself up by now) as god of magic.

Ghlaunder: will be the god of the swarm.

Razmir:Maybe he's become a real god by now!

Groetus: We're closer to the heat death of the universe, Groetus gains in power.

[Shisumo]

Captain collateral damage wrote:

Besmara: We need a god of SPAAAAACE pirates!

Five credits says she's in the core as one of the 20.

[Berselius]

Zon-Kuthon is still alive and kicking? Shoot, was hoping he perished with the disappearence of Nidal (then again, for all we know, Golarion still exists). I hope some good deities are around to counter Mr. Sadismo-God.

[Shelyn, The Eternal Rose]

Oh, he's not so bad, he's just rebelling. He'll get it out of his system in a few thousand years.

[Berselius]

Shelyn...sweetie...you know I (and virtually everyone other being in the multiverse) love you hun, but we gotta talk about this optimistic view you have of your brother.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Berselius wrote:

Zon-Kuthon is still alive and kicking? Shoot, was hoping he perished with the disappearence of Nidal (then again, for all we know, Golarion still exists). I hope some good deities are around to counter Mr. Sadismo-God.

The Core 20 are worshipped EVERYWHERE, ZK's existence is not dependent on Nidal, nor Golarion itself.

[Berselius]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Berselius wrote:

Zon-Kuthon is still alive and kicking? Shoot, was hoping he perished with the disappearence of Nidal (then again, for all we know, Golarion still exists). I hope some good deities are around to counter Mr. Sadismo-God.

The Core 20 are worshipped EVERYWHERE, ZK's existence is not dependent on Nidal, nor Golarion itself.

Ah, I was under the impression their deific influence extended only to Golarion's population (with the exception of Asmodeus and Lamashtu). So, it's been officially stated that the core 20 deities are definately worshiped by other worlds then?

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Berselius wrote:

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Berselius wrote:

Zon-Kuthon is still alive and kicking? Shoot, was hoping he perished with the disappearence of Nidal (then again, for all we know, Golarion still exists). I hope some good deities are around to counter Mr. Sadismo-God.

The Core 20 are worshipped EVERYWHERE, ZK's existence is not dependent on Nidal, nor Golarion itself.

Ah, I was under the impression their deific influence extended only to Golarion's population (with the exception of Asmodeus and Lamashtu). So, it's been officially stated that the core 20 deities are definately worshiped by other worlds then?

About as official as a messageboard post by a paizo dev can be.

[QuidEst]

Berselius wrote:

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Berselius wrote:

Zon-Kuthon is still alive and kicking? Shoot, was hoping he perished with the disappearence of Nidal (then again, for all we know, Golarion still exists). I hope some good deities are around to counter Mr. Sadismo-God.

The Core 20 are worshipped EVERYWHERE, ZK's existence is not dependent on Nidal, nor Golarion itself.

Ah, I was under the impression their deific influence extended only to Golarion's population (with the exception of Asmodeus and Lamashtu). So, it's been officially stated that the core 20 deities are definately worshiped by other worlds then?

In Pathfinder, gods neither need nor directly benefit from worship. If you removed all of Zon's worshippers, he'd just be annoyed/impressed.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

I'd like to see a golden metal deity that constantly denies his divinity, but when he gets upset, he uses his magic and flies around, causing fear in all those that look upon him.

And he speaks alot of languages.

[Gold Rush]

I... I never knew I had it in me.

[Matthew Shelton]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Maybe this setting has a Core 12 or Core 8 instead of a Core 20. Given the sci-fi thrust, I'd expect religion to play a lesser part than in a fantasy setting.

I would expect a more irreligious setting to have many more deities than fewer. If there's fifty or a hundred different gods all competing for attention, they will end up blending together; no single deity becomes truly important or influential. Effectively they all become 'minor deities'.

[Tom Kalbfus]

What about planetary deities? With worlds all over the Galaxy, I would be surprised if there were only 12, I would expect there to be at least hundreds if not thousands of deities! Can't list them all, but maybe there could be rules for GM created deities that are specific to particular worlds. Perhaps we can have generalized deity types or deity templates.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

What about planetary deities? With worlds all over the Galaxy, I would be surprised if there were only 12, I would expect there to be at least hundreds if not thousands of deities! Can't list them all, but maybe there could be rules for GM created deities that are specific to particular worlds. Perhaps we can have generalized deity types or deity templates.

The planetary dieties would be the same core 20 under different names.

[Tom Kalbfus]

That would make them very powerful wouldn't it? I mean if they are just the deities of one world that's one thing, but millions of worlds!!! That would make them almost like monotheistic Gods, also I think the gods would tend to divide the Galaxy amongst themselves, they would draw borders between their various areas on influence rather than taking portfolios like the normal fantasy deities. There is another setting firmly within the Science Fiction realm with things like gods, Orion's Arm for example.

[David knott 242]

There is no indication that there is any power level difference between the core 20 deities and other full deities who also grant five domains, so the core list is simply a listing of the deities who are most popular in a given setting.

The core 20 deities in the Pathfinder rules are the 20 most popular deities in the Inner Sea region (note that Tian Xia has a slightly different list). The core 20 deities in the Starfinder setting will be the 20 most popular deities in the Pact Worlds (so other solar systems may have slightly different lists, if any other solar system is considered important enough to provide that level of detail).

[Matthew Shelton]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

What about planetary deities? With worlds all over the Galaxy, I would be surprised if there were only 12, I would expect there to be at least hundreds if not thousands of deities! Can't list them all, but maybe there could be rules for GM created deities that are specific to particular worlds. Perhaps we can have generalized deity types or deity templates.

The planetary dieties would be the same core 20 under different names.

That's a lot like how Dragonstar does it.

Possibly some deities have a "home planet" from which they have expanded their religion to other star systems within the same sector or region of a galaxy or across multiple galaxies? For example, the Egyptian gods might be originally from Earth, but they have also cultivated worshippers on Faerûn (Mulhorandi pantheon) and Golarion (Osirian pantheon).

[Voss]

If it's good enough for the Romans....

'You worship who? Oh, no, no, no. Simple people, you misunderstood. His name is Saturn. Hers is Venus, that one is Mercury. Silly savages.'

[Bluenose]

That's really not what the Romans thought. Their understanding was that they might know of Mars, the Germans know of Tiw, the Celts of Camalos; but none of those were any closer to representing the true war god, who was far greater than any human could understand. Of course Mars and Tiw aren't identical, they're both only part of some greater essence neither groups of worshippers could understand in full.

[Paladin of Gorum]

Bluenose wrote:

Their understanding was that they might know of Mars, the Germans know of Tiw, the Celts of Camalos; but none of those were any closer to representing the true war god, who was far greater than any human could understand.

Amen.

[Voss]

Bluenose wrote:

That's really not what the Romans thought. Their understanding was that they might know of Mars, the Germans know of Tiw, the Celts of Camalos; but none of those were any closer to representing the true war god, who was far greater than any human could understand. Of course Mars and Tiw aren't identical, they're both only part of some greater essence neither groups of worshippers could understand in full.

That really isn't what their histories record. Suetonius and others are pretty clear that they believe that tribe X worships <deity>, but they're stupid, do it wrong and address the deity incorrectly by a degenerate local name.

[Tacticslion]

There is a distressing lack of Calistria, Erastil, and Shelyn.

I mean, I get it, I really do, but... I just like all three too much.

Well that, and, you know, I think they each have something to offer.

(But that's probably because I like them so much.)

Calistria really seems like the kind to thrive in a sci-fantasy environment. "Wasps" might not be common, but pretty much everything else is, and wasp-like creatures or devices seem right at home in a sci-fantasy setting.

Shelyn seems like the kind to thrive no matter what (and her lack of presence while ZK continues is... hm, "disturbing" is the best word I've got, at present).

And I just plain like the idea of a pastoral god of family and community in a sci-fantasy space setting (though I recognize that it's unlikely to be very popular in- or out-of-game) and I like how alien his worship likely becomes during this - the whole nearly-savage-seeming utilization of dead creatures and fetishes made from body parts (i.e. stag horns and whatnot) is likely to seem super-creepy and savage, and I kind of like the idea that that thing is lawful good.

I am actually surprised that Asmodeus and Lamashtu - the former seems too prominent to lack with the remnants of both Cheliax and Hellknights implied to still exist (NOTE: my information may well be out of date and/or wrong, but that's last I heard); while the latter just seems like she's on the rise... though Desna's continued inclusion and her lack of it, may be... telling of how that rivalry goes. Similiarly, Iomedae's inclusion while Asmodeus isn't obviously included, especially if some remnant of Cheliax and/Hellknights are around... that speaks volumes, I'd say.

The lack of Cayden, Gorum, Irori, Nethys, Norgorber, and Rovagug all make sense, given Golarion's lack, and how tied to that planet their personal mythologies are... but that throws Iomedae's inclusion into question (or her inclusion throws the presumption of their lack into question).

That mostly leaves Gozreh - who doesn't seem thematic enough for a sci-fantasy space adventure - and Torag, god of dwarves... a people that notably few in Paizo are champions of, themselves.

The list as it currently stands has the following alignments covered: LN (Abadar), CG (Desna), LG (Iomedae), N (Pharasma), NG (Sarenrae), NE (Urgathoa), and LE (Zon-Kuthon).

To that end, we're really missing CE and CN.

The current pantheon has quite a few "extras" - three LG, two NG, two CG, two LN, three N, two CN, two LE, two NE, and two CE.

That's at least one "extra" per alignment, and another extra for LG and N.

All of that is mostly just to say: I'unno. Also, "Dot."

EDIT: And Religion, just for fun.

[The Sideromancer]

Voss wrote:

Bluenose wrote:

That's really not what the Romans thought. Their understanding was that they might know of Mars, the Germans know of Tiw, the Celts of Camalos; but none of those were any closer to representing the true war god, who was far greater than any human could understand. Of course Mars and Tiw aren't identical, they're both only part of some greater essence neither groups of worshippers could understand in full.

That really isn't what their histories record. Suetonius and others are pretty clear that they believe that tribe X worships <deity>, but they're stupid, do it wrong and address the deity incorrectly by a degenerate local name.

However, a deity would often pick up names from other cultures in addition to their Roman one (e.g. Sulis Minerva).

[Tom Kalbfus]

Speaking of Roman Deities, here is a Solar System arranged by the deities in question so that all of their planets remain habitable. Mercury was made a moon of Venus. Venus and Earth are put at the Trojan points of Jupiter, which was inserted into Earth's orbit, Neptune is a satellite of Jupiter or this version of Jupiter in this system. In the next orbit our I Saturn, with Mars at one Trojan point and Uranus in its opposite Trojan point. Mars is the god of war, due to some treachery it was cast into the outer orbit along with the Titans Saturn and Uranus.

[Umbral Reaver]

I'm the new deity. It's me.

[Malefactor]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

I'm the new deity. It's me.

Didn't know we would be getting any ascended Eldest.

[Torbyne]

So i suppose the best way to speculate would be to look at what a space faring society would value and figure out portfolios for the gods.

For instance, there is a planet of sentient undead so perhaps we have a neutral or big N little e NE god of undeath? Pharasma would probably have some words on the subject.

Also, Pathfinder has already established that in setting Stars are fountains of positive energy that are the origin point for Souls in the Prime Material while Blackholes are portals of negative energy and connected to the shadow plane. Some new space deity or deities that center around the roll of astrological phenomena and life cycles seem plausible.

I could see an opening for a new god of mind and knowledge considering we have a few telepathic/psychic races in the setting and one would think knowledge in general is much more highly respected.

[QuidEst]

I'd like to see greater global representation- the Inner Sea is no longer the default setting, after all. Hopefully we'll be getting some deities popular in other regions "promoted".

[Tom Kalbfus]

Torbyne wrote:

So i suppose the best way to speculate would be to look at what a space faring society would value and figure out portfolios for the gods.

For instance, there is a planet of sentient undead so perhaps we have a neutral or big N little e NE god of undeath? Pharasma would probably have some words on the subject.

Also, Pathfinder has already established that in setting Stars are fountains of positive energy that are the origin point for Souls in the Prime Material while Blackholes are portals of negative energy and connected to the shadow plane. Some new space deity or deities that center around the roll of astrological phenomena and life cycles seem plausible.

I could see an opening for a new god of mind and knowledge considering we have a few telepathic/psychic races in the setting and one would think knowledge in general is much more highly respected.

If you want to have your hit points healed, I wouldn't suggest diving into a star. I envision a kind of dualistic universe, one part science, the other part magic. In science for example, there aren't four elements, but four basic forces in the Universe, there is Gravity, Electromagnetism, the Weak force and the Strong force. All of these forces make up everything we see and can touch in the Universe, in the Universe of Starfinder, there is also a fifth fundamental force called Magic!

[Torbyne]

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

So i suppose the best way to speculate would be to look at what a space faring society would value and figure out portfolios for the gods.

For instance, there is a planet of sentient undead so perhaps we have a neutral or big N little e NE god of undeath? Pharasma would probably have some words on the subject.

Also, Pathfinder has already established that in setting Stars are fountains of positive energy that are the origin point for Souls in the Prime Material while Blackholes are portals of negative energy and connected to the shadow plane. Some new space deity or deities that center around the roll of astrological phenomena and life cycles seem plausible.

I could see an opening for a new god of mind and knowledge considering we have a few telepathic/psychic races in the setting and one would think knowledge in general is much more highly respected.

If you want to have your hit points healed, I wouldn't suggest diving into a star. I envision a kind of dualistic universe, one part science, the other part magic. In science for example, there aren't four elements, but four basic forces in the Universe, there is Gravity, Electromagnetism, the Weak force and the Strong force. All of these forces make up everything we see and can touch in the Universe, in the Universe of Starfinder, there is also a fifth fundamental force called Magic!

True but this is also the same setting as Pathfinder which does not have physics as we know it. Stars really do spew out souls and are brimming with positive energy. Also, probably a lot of fire too and i agree that you shouldnt be throwing your ill and crippled masses into stars to help them but still. Soul Spewing.

Likewise, Black Holes are chock full of nasty undead things that are barely contained in addition to being crushing gravity wells.

[QuidEst]

Yeah. In Pathfinder, stars do sometimes contain life. Complete fire immunity is the biggest qualification. I think they listed certain dragons and really powerful mages as habitants?

[Captain collateral damage]

Torbyne wrote:

So i suppose the best way to speculate would be to look at what a space faring society would value and figure out portfolios for the gods.

For instance, there is a planet of sentient undead so perhaps we have a neutral or big N little e NE god of undeath? Pharasma would probably have some words on the subject.

Urgathoa is confirmed for the new Core 20, so yeah. She's also by no means a "little e" deity.

Torbyne wrote:

Also, Pathfinder has already established that in setting Stars are fountains of positive energy that are the origin point for Souls in the Prime Material while Blackholes are portals of negative energy and connected to the shadow plane. Some new space deity or deities that center around the roll of astrological phenomena and life cycles seem plausible.

That's definitely a real possibility, and one that if Paizo doesn't do I will be dissaponinted. Sarenrae already represents suns, so maybe Zon-kuthon for black holes? It's also interesting that the solarion class apparently channels the power of suns and black holes. I think I heard they chose this so as to not have a "good" or "evil" side, but... suns are positive energy and black holes are negative, and the cleric makes it pretty clear that they are good and evil. In short: Paizo has caught itself in it's own web of objective morality.

Torbyne wrote:

I could see an opening for a new god of mind and knowledge considering we have a few telepathic/psychic races in the setting and one would think knowledge in general is much more highly respected.

There's a good chance that will be the AI deity or Brigh, but I also think it's a real possibility that Yuelral will take over nethy's position as god of magic and knowledge and stuff, as she's also likely worshiped by the Lashunta in addition to the elves. Or maybe that's just my absurd hope based soloely on the fact that I really like elves. :/

[Torbyne]

Captain collateral damage wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

So i suppose the best way to speculate would be to look at what a space faring society would value and figure out portfolios for the gods.

For instance, there is a planet of sentient undead so perhaps we have a neutral or big N little e NE god of undeath? Pharasma would probably have some words on the subject.

Urgathoa is confirmed for the new Core 20, so yeah. She's also by no means a "little e" deity.

Torbyne wrote:

Also, Pathfinder has already established that in setting Stars are fountains of positive energy that are the origin point for Souls in the Prime Material while Blackholes are portals of negative energy and connected to the shadow plane. Some new space deity or deities that center around the roll of astrological phenomena and life cycles seem plausible.

That's definitely a real possibility, and one that if Paizo doesn't do I will be dissaponinted. Sarenrae already represents suns, so maybe Zon-kuthon for black holes? It's also interesting that the solarion class apparently channels the power of suns and black holes. I think I heard they chose this so as to not have a "good" or "evil" side, but... suns are positive energy and black holes are negative, and the cleric makes it pretty clear that they are good and evil. In short: Paizo has caught itself in it's own web of objective morality.

Torbyne wrote:

I could see an opening for a new god of mind and knowledge considering we have a few telepathic/psychic races in the setting and one would think knowledge in general is much more highly respected.

There's a good chance that will be the AI deity or Brigh, but I also think it's a real possibility that Yuelral will take over nethy's position as god of magic and knowledge and stuff, as she's also likely worshiped by the Lashunta in addition to the elves. Or maybe that's just my absurd hope based soloely on the fact that I really like elves. :/

I was thinking a competing diety to Urgathoa that isnt as outright evil since the there is supposed to be a nuetral participate Pact World of undead and that doesnt seem to fit with Urgathoa too well.

As for Yuelral, that is still a god of magic, i would like Brigh for it more but we may see something wholly new...

And yeah, objective morality makes Solarions a strange fit.

[QuidEst]

Pretty sure Eox is generally evil-aligned. Doesn't mean they can't get along with the other pact worlds- Geb still did a lot of trade on Golarion, after all.

[Umbral Reaver]

Malefactor wrote:

Umbral Reaver wrote:

I'm the new deity. It's me.

Didn't know we would be getting any ascended Eldest.

That makes me wonder. What do future fey do? But that's another topic entirely.

[Torbyne]

yeah, i guess... Bone Sages are listed as evil only but give them several centuries and maybe they have found their way to neutral? I guess i dont see what their end game is, there is some hint that they hate life since they created skeleton Kaiju but otherwise seem to want to be left alone in their own little bubbles and dont really do much in the grand scheme of things.

I feel its a losing argument though, its already established that undead are inherently evil.

Plus they have a Death Star and that usually isnt a sign of being the plucky heroes of the story.

[David knott 242]

QuidEst wrote:

I'd like to see greater global representation- the Inner Sea is no longer the default setting, after all. Hopefully we'll be getting some deities popular in other regions "promoted".

Given that the timeline has advanced many centuries in an unknown direction and that the planet Golarion itself is gone, I suspect that the generic "Golarion culture" will have little to do with the current Pathfinder setting and will borrow a lot from the cultures of the other inhabited planets in its solar system.

In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that some of the Pathfinder core 20 deities were relegated to minor status precisely because they lacked cross-cultural appeal.

[Torbyne]

So Absalom Station being a huge melting pot of all of Golarion's civilizations... some new cosmopolitan god of cities or cultures? Or Absalom station itself divided up into ethnic and cultural sections that each have their own faiths maybe?

[The Raven Black]

I did the same alignment analysis as Tacticslion in another thread here and concluded as follows :

And here we see the out of game reason for many missing and kept old core gods : max 1 old god for each alignment and the one if any that makes at least some sense in Starfinder.
Hence Iomedae
Now to muse on the alignment and identity of the new gods
For example Besmara for CN sounds perfect :-)

I later added :

Based on my above analysis, I surmise that one of the elevated current lesser PFRPG deities will have the CE alignment.
Looking for likely candidates, I found three with some potential :
- Deskari, as deity for the Swarm (Space Locusts)
- Ghlaunder, to enhance its rivalry with Desna
- Pazuzu, which would be interesting seeing that Lamashtu is not in the Core 20 anymore
I am really looking forward to more tidbits about the gods in SFRPG :-)

Make of that what you wish. There is much room left for speculation

[The Raven Black]

Captain collateral damage wrote:

It's also interesting that the solarion class apparently channels the power of suns and black holes. I think I heard they chose this so as to not have a "good" or "evil" side, but... suns are positive energy and black holes are negative, and the cleric makes it pretty clear that they are good and evil. In short: Paizo has caught itself in it's own web of objective morality.

Energies are not aligned in PFRPG, even the positive and negative ones. I see no need for that to change in SFRPG ;-)

[Torbyne]

are you sure about that? there is a pretty clear trend of evil being connected to negative and good being connected to positive, just look at any divine casting class.

[Captain collateral damage]

I could kinda see an argument that positive energy isn't always good aligned, as it can still kill you and the Jyoti are Neutral, but generally it's good aligned as, you know, good deities give it to their clerics, and to say that negative energy isn't evil goes against basically every instance of stuff with negative energy ever.

[The Sideromancer]

Captain collateral damage wrote:

I could kinda see an argument that positive energy isn't always good aligned, as it can still kill you and the Jyoti are Neutral, but generally it's good aligned as, you know, good deities give it to their clerics, and to say that negative energy isn't evil goes against basically every instance of stuff with negative energy ever.

Except for the inflict spells (no descriptors, Good oracles can use them), Cleans on negative-affinity creatures, and the Enervation/energy drain spells.