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So I'm in need of another Low-Level PFS character. I thought, wouldn't a flying lancer be fun? I could charge all the time. So far it's becoming a headache. I figured that a medium mount for a small character would be the best way to go, but around level 7 all the best mounts get large.
So the big question is - Do I go for a weaker, medium sized mount? Or stick with the Roc? (Also, they can still squeeze when flying, right?)
The rest of the build is fairly standard, I think.
STR:18 DEX:12 CON:12 INT:12 WIS:12 CHA: 7
(Bumping WIS later, for spells and whatnot)
Traits: Beast Bond, Magical Knack.
Level 1 (Dragoon Fighter 1): Mounted Combat, Skill Focus-Ride, Ride-By Attack
Level 2 (Hunter 1)
Level 3 (Hunter 2): Spirited Charge; Precise Shot
Level 4 (Hunter 3): Escape Route
Level 5 (Hunter 4): Boon Companion
Level 6 (Dragoon Fighter 2): Wheeling Charge
Level 7 (Hunter 5): Power Attack
If a Large flying mount isn't as bad as I think though, I might try this.
Level 1 (Dragoon Fighter 1): Mounted Combat, Skill Focus-Ride, Ride-By Attack
Level 2 (Hunter 1)
Level 3 (Hunter 2): Spirited Charge; Precise Shot
Level 4 (Hunter 3): Escape Route
Level 5 (Hunter 4): Boon Companion
Level 6 (Dragoon Fighter 2): Wheeling Charge
Level 7 (Hunter 5): Combat Expertise
Level 8 (Hunter 6): Pack Flanking
Instead of taking the listed benefit at 4th or 7th level, you can instead choose to increase the companion's Dexterity and Constitution by 2.
It's in the Animal Choices section of the druid's animal companion section. here
There's no rule blocking squeezing while flying. Alternately rather than have an animal companion grow a size category you can have it get +2 Str Dex, +2 Con at that point instead (no other changes like AC, grab etc); growing is usually much better but it's an option.
BTW, why precise shot? with 12 dex and no other ranged feats you don't seem to be likely to shoot things often, especially if your friends are in melee, and at least one of your plans has pack flanking which makes outflank outrageously good.
I personally, as a PFS GM, wouldn't allow squeeze flying unless you could show a rule that pretty much explicitly allows it. My ruling is based off of this:
"If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage."
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AC Choice
Just started a similar character. Yolubilis Heron (kept medium) was the best AC I could find. Because I wanted to be at reach distance all the time I made the AC a Bodyguard and did not worry about it attacking.
You will likely need Extra Item Slot Shoulders Muleback Cords at low levels if you horde gear like I do. Your AC can't fly with a medium load.
AC Defences
Get Iron Will for you AC asap because it is going get targeted. I grabbed escape route As you have planed, Scarred Legion, and shake it off for team work feats. At least until I get Indomitable Mount. These are different from my usual recommendations because outflank and pack flanking don't work well with this build. Consider skirmisher trick Bolster Companion to help keep your AC alive.
My Build
I like cavaliers for the dip because they don't apply armour check to ride. It makes it easier to use mounted combat or ride to give yourself cover. Gendarme archetype gets you going fast. Valiant Steed can help with low (12 or lower) mental stats.
I'm playing a cavalier sacred huntmaster with the anger inquisition. I have access to heroism, rage, furious and divine favour, which is what swayed me from the hunter. Make sure you find ways to keep your accuracy up. Charging from elevation is +3 so that helps.
MAPS
I have found that most dungeons have 5ft wide but 10ft high ceilings so I kept my AC medium and just sit right above the other guy in the front line. With smart positioning and asking people to keep my line free I have not had a need for wheeling charge, but it's great I should get it as some point.
Take as much or as little of this as you like. The build is fun.
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The thing with pack flanking is that I need a large mount, or one with a 10' attack, for it to work because I stop advancing as soon as I can hit them (a and the mount needs to threaten for that jazz), so it's not so great with the Lance. I am tempted to try Divine Fighting (Gorum) and vital strike instead, but the Lance is a lot more straight forward.
As for the squeezing and flying, I should probably take that to the Rules forum.
There's always a Mauler Archetype Familiar...
I just posted a possible Battle Shaman build somewhere else with a level of Sohei Monk for bonus no-prerequisites Mounted Skirmisher and armored Flurry - though that was with the added nuisance of being DEX-based. Anyhow, by the time you pick up Divine Favor and especially the Battle Shaman's Bane effect, Mounted Skirmisher Flurry of Blows is murderous.
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It does but only if it qualifies for both classes. A wolf would be fine but a heron is not. You do gain the benefit that if it happens to die "The mount is always considered combat trained" it also gets a free feat with "Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat". Not huge benefits but not nothing either.
BadBird's build seem fun but I would have to see the whole build. 3x damage on your highest BAB attack and never being in reach or provoking at Aoo is amazing. An extra attack, benefiting from haste, bane, weapon spec I assume is great too. I love shamans for hexes, flexibility, 9th level casting and multi-classing with monk. Your going to want maulers endurance for this build because you will be losing if your familiar dies.
Having played characters very similar to both lance would have the edge low levels. Shaman mid to high level. Stats go much farther needing just dex and wisdom and you know spells.
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So I've been looking at the options you guys have sent my way and a lot of them are really cool, I'd never really looked at the shaman before and it seems pretty sweet. But I think I'm going to have to go with Dragoon, An AC will have a bit more health than a Familiar and a Gendarme's "No armor penalty on ride" only applies to it's own mount and they can't ride a Roc.
As for a mount choice, think I'm still sticking with the Roc - 19 DEX and +5 NA look pretty good for defenses. Still might keep him medium sized at 7, but it's going to be a tough call.
Any standout mount feats I should know about? that's about the last piece of this I need to look at.
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A mauler and a roc basically have the same hp there is a good chance the mauler comes out ahead. 9 con is rough 3.5 per hd which begins to fall behind (this gets better with level advance +2 con). Most melee characters get 8+ hp per level give 4 or more every level. If you are worried about hp rocs are rough.
But they are better offensively 3 attacks (when you get to use them). I think you need to settle on a play style for the AC and the best one will be clear!
EDIT: One other thing to consider is that the Heron is stronger at medium so it can carry you more easily.
I think you have a good handle on the build not hope you have fun.
Not that I'm really endorsing it or anything, but I had the sudden awareness that a Shaman/Sohei1 of Magdh could take Crusader's Flurry: Scythe. The mental image of a Wayang riding a big raven and flurrying a scythe with Mounted Skirmisher is something I felt the need to share.
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That's an awesome idea, and it would make a great character - actually I have a friend that loves hexes but isn't a very good witch, I'd love to have him play that alongside my lancer.
Edit: how do you get channel to qualify for Crusaders Flurry?
Also, I'm a moron. Wheeling charge is cool but if I take another fighter level at 7 I can get Power Attack and Furious Focus.
Shaman can get Channel Energy from the Life Spirit, or the Witch Doctor Archetype, or I think also the Spirit Warden Archetype. Ironically they're better channelers than most Clerics, because it's still based on CHA.
Witches can also get Channeling from the Hex Channeler Archetype, so you can create a Strength Patron Witch + Sohei + Eldritch Knight that has Divine Favor and Heroism as buff spells and can Flurry their deity's weapon. You can even create a Strength Patron Ley-Line Witch + Unchained Monk + Dragon Disciple with unchained flurry. The new Prestigious Spellcaster feat makes those old PrCs new again...
Hmm... the whole thing started as an idea for a medium race using Undersized Mount on something like a Mauler medium fox (since fox is high-STR). Small races without a STR penalty might work OK.
A race with the ability to take Cleric spells with their Favored Class is really good to have, since that means you get Divine Favor as well as later getting Divine Power; but I'm not aware of a small race that gets that. But maybe...
With a Wayang, you could do something like 16STR, 12/14DEX, 14CON, 8/10INT, 13WIS, 12CHA. You ain't trying to make any spell DC's work, just get the spells cast. Frostbite will make unarmed strikes hit pretty hard in the first couple levels, then you can start using Bull's Strength as your combat buff at 4 with a 9-ring broadsword. You use the Ancestor Spirit as your Wandering Spirit to cast Heroism at level 6, which helps accuracy quite a bit. Eventually, You use a +2WIS, +2CHA headband to keep up with spellcasting levels and make the most of Enemies' Bane. So maybe...
Witch-Doctor Shaman / Sohei 1
1So. +Mounted Skirmisher / Mauler's Endurance
2WS.
3WS. Weapon Focus: X
4WS.
5WS. Crusader's Flurry: X
As a PFS build... it's not bad at lower levels really, but it's a bit slower to take-off. Still, two Frostbite unarmed strikes from 1-3, then two 9-ring strikes with bull's strength at 4, then Crusader's Flurry at 5, then finally Divine Favor at 8 and Enemies' Bane at 9, when it's murder.
You'd need to take a level of shaman first to be able to take mauler's endurance at level 1. By the way, what weapon were you thinking of to use with crusader's flurry? A scythe doesn't seem worth the feat to do so over a nine-ring broadsword or something. I can't think of a deity whose favored weapon is a lance.
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Hmmm, didn't think of undersized mount, that probably makes things a bit easier. Thinking about it overnight, witch/sohei would probably work better with the wayang (INT based and all that), and be light enough to fly.
As for a Shaman, here's what I'm thinking now:
Race: Nagaji
TR:17 DEX:14 CON:14 INT:18 WIS:14 CHA: 10
(Bumping STR first, then WIS later)
Traits: Heirloom Weapon - Greatsword, Magical Knack.
Level 1 (Shaman 1): Mauler's Endurance
Level 2 (Shaman 2)
Level 3 (Shaman 3): Undersized Mount
Level 4 (Shaman 4):
Level 5 (Shaman 5): Weapon Focus - Greatsword
Level 6 (Shaman 6):
Level 7 (Sohei 1): Crusader's Flurry; Mounted Skirmisher
Familiar - This I think has some wiggle room. Fox is great, if he can get his kit down to less than 50 LBS he can fly with a Hawk, and if he travels light and wants to be on the ground a Compsognathus is a great option too.
Yeah my example there was a bit late night scatterbrained... Sometimes Crusader's Flurry is for fun. One feat to gain a half point of damage and higher crit isn't a terrible waste anyhow, and x4 is hilarious.
You don't need Heirloom Weapon, Sohei gets martial proficiency. Fate's Favored will eventually make buffing better.
I would prioritize getting Sohei in there at 4, as soon as it's functional to use Mounted Skirmisher, and wield a 9-ring. And then maybe work towards Crusader's Flurry. Or maybe not, since 9-ring is a decent sword anyhow. But get Sohei early, since flurry and skirmisher is a big deal.
If you're going medium race, a race that can grab Cleric spells with Shaman FCB is just better; Half Elf has a racial option of starting with +2 STR and +2 CHA, or Human can get +2 to any 2 stats. Grabbing Divine Favor is just too good.
A Shaman can cast Fly on their familiar, incidentally, so flying familiars aren't necessarily needed.
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oh wow, Divine Favor really helps the build wreck face. If we're going to be abusing that, Fate's Favoured and sacred tattoo Half Orc are no-brainers. Also, the flying thing was more thematic, but with another Sohei level we can get Ride-By and be charging all the time if we fly, and getting another +1 to hit for the high ground.
Race: Half-Orc
TR:16 DEX:14 CON:14 INT:8 WIS:14 CHA: 12
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack.
Level 1 (Shaman 1): Mauler's Endurance
Level 2 (Shaman 2)
Level 3 (Shaman 3): Undersized Mount
Level 4 (Sphei 1): Mounted Skirmisher
Level 5 (Shaman 4): Weapon Focus - Greatsword
Level 6 (Shaman 5):
Level 7 (Shaman 6): Crusader's Flurry
Level 8 (Sohei 2): Ride-By Attack
also ran some numbers on attacking, at level 8 it'll be swinging at (with Divine Favor which we can have every fight now, and 2 more points in STR) +16/+16/+11 Greatsword (2d6+10).
That's pretty hard for a caster, with those kinds of numbers Power Attack becomes an option at level 9.
Also, the flying thing was more thematic, but with another Sohei level we can get Ride-By and be charging all the time if we fly, and getting another +1 to hit for the high ground.
Well, when you've got Mounted Skirmisher, Ride-by is kind of a moot point. Mounted Skirmisher means you can just ride up to (above) a target and full-attack it with your flurry.
Oh, I'm a moron - I've been misreading Mounted Skirmisher. No charge, just Full Attacks. Maybe no Power Attack then, but it's still great for an (almost) full caster. Trick Riding is probably a better option then.
Well, you can grab Heroism easily on top of all your other attack bonuses, so Power Attack is still pretty feasible. By level 9, Bane + Divine Favor/Power + Heroism is a +8 to hit, so... *shrug*