We have a small group, only three people. My friend is a gamemaster and I am the veteran player, our other player is a newbie. Meaning they have never played pathfinder or even an rpg before.
My guess is he will probably play a more basic class, eg. some melee like fighter. I will help guide him along and try to make the game interesting for him.
My dilemma is I dont know what clas to play, my go to class is wizard for most campaigns but since my old group split (Only dm and I still). But I don't want to completely overshadow my friend because I want him to have a good time (Playing wizard for three years sure lets you know how to min/max them) but I also don't want the campaign to flop. Meaning if I don't play a more powerful class we might not do so well.
I was thinking about trying bard, I have played one once before and it is quite fun, I know he won't really overshadow, at least not like a full caster but I am worried he won't be able to "carry" that well. Would he be ok to play?
If not bard or wizard do you guys have any suggestions? I want them to be able to cast magic at least somewhat, so no melee based fighters like fighter or barb (I don't count them as casting magic).
Thanks - Yoshu
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Bard might be too under-powered and the +1 from your performance might be forgotten by your noob friend anyway. A power class such as magus maybe, uses both fighter and wizard concepts and has fire power.
You would know the spells by heart and it lets you get in the mix. On the other hand to off set your low numbers you might try two characters and let your friend play one character.
With just two players, the DM will have to adjust encounters for balance anyway, or you are totally hosed.
I'd try bard, or a divine caster. Cleric's got hitting power, and decent support spells including summons.
With just two players, the DM will have to adjust encounters for balance anyway, or you are totally hosed.
I'd try bard, or a divine caster. Cleric's got hitting power, and decent support spells including summons.
Was definetly thinking of oracle or cleric, because I coupd buff/support and also have utility and combat ability but not overshadow.
He won't adjust it, and that is because I don't want him to. Before any of our groups we would play together just him the dm and me the player. I am quite used to soloing and I know how to play around the lack of players.
Bard might be too under-powered and the +1 from your performance might be forgotten by your noob friend anyway. A power class such as magus maybe, uses both fighter and wizard concepts and has fire power.
You would know the spells by heart and it lets you get in the mix. On the other hand to off set your low numbers you might try two characters and let your friend play one character.
Thanks for the suggestion but I HATE arcane gish's. Not really sure why, because divine ones are fine but I just don't like the magus (Note: I don't really consider the bard a arcane gish.
Druid. The pet will help with melee, and you can heal and blast and buff, etc.
Have the newbie play a ranger or slayer. Skills and 2 good save and good at fighting, little to no magic. Less boring than a fighter, and more guided (you pick a combat style and then choose from 4 or 5 feats, as opposed to picking from 1000+ combat feats).
In my experience, lots of newbies like to Climb stuff and be Stealthy. Perception and Survival can be used a lot, too, and give the newbie a reason to have an above average Wisdom score, and that shores up their poor Will saves.
Druid. The pet will help with melee, and you can heal and blast and buff, etc.
Have the newbie play a ranger or slayer. Skills and 2 good save and good at fighting, little to no magic. Less boring than a fighter, and more guided (you pick a combat style and then choose from 4 or 5 feats, as opposed to picking from 1000+ combat feats).
In my experience, lots of newbies like to Climb stuff and be Stealthy. Perception and Survival can be used a lot, too, and give the newbie a reason to have an above average Wisdom score, and that shores up their poor Will saves.
Was thinking of showing him the ranger, thought it would be cool
And while I like tue concept of the druid, every time I play one I want to kill myself. They are so BORINGGGGGG. I really do want to like them, but I end up playing wizards instead.
How would oracle be instead? I really love the class fluff and it is a full caster.
Oracle or shaman are good. I think both have options for pets, too, if you need some more meatshields.
Oracles are very flavorful, and they can usually cover the basic cleric stuff (healing) as well as some auxiliary wizardly stuff (blasting, buffing, de-buffing, and battlefield control), and have 4+ skill points, so they can be minor skill monkeys.
(I like druids. They're so versatile! They can do something fun and interesting and different in every fight and encounter.)
EDIT:
Talk to your GM about _Ozy_'s suggestion. We ran a campaign with 3 PCs and each of us also ran an NPC henchman warrior. It was really fun, and since the warrior class is really basic, their turns in combat didn't take too long. Mine used a heavy crossbow, so pretty much every other turn was "I reload my crossbow." Easy peasy. It also gave the campaign an old school 1st Edition feel.
You might want the flexibility of a cleric over an oracle when it comes to spell selection. 2 players isn't necessarily 2 characters, anyone going to take leadership or get some other bodies on the field? Play multiple characters?
Yah, I know.
But I love oracles fluff and I know some builds that can give me charisma, saves, and initiative in the couple hundreds.
Have you checked out the shaman? It's a combo of the oracle and witch with some druid spells and can swap out different spirits for different suites of spells, like being a healbot one day, and a tank the next, and a sage the day after.
I'm not sure if it is Charisma or Wisdom based, though.
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My top suggestions for both of you. Having started more then a few games with two players. Having a extra target for damage at low levels. Is something you will need or their is a good chance of a party wipe. The first few encounters.
To cover multiple roles.
1: Ranger (Urban Ranger), or Slayer
Combat with the ability to handle traps.
2: Druid
Animal Companion to help with combat, and best Utility caster.
If your friend can handle a more advanced character.
Two hunters that have the same team work feat's. A friend of mine and I did this for giant slayer. The lack of social skills was the only problem we ran in to. We could both heal, and having 4 targets for damage makes a big difference.
A hybrid Cleric, Shaman or Oracle could be effective in multiple roles.
A Cleric with one level of Unchained Monk can do some serious damage with unchained flurry and a weapon, while also being effective with spellcasting and tough to take down. You can even use Guided Hand to stack WIS for melee, spellcasting and AC, and then use flurry with Crusader's Flurry.
An Oracle using one of the revelations that lets you use CHA for dodge AC can also be very strong with both combat and casting.
The main thing with hybrid divine builds is that you do generally want to cast Divine Favor or Power; assuming you can manage that single short-term buff spell, they can be very strong combat characters. On the casting side, it's not difficult to add powerful arcane spells like Confusion or Glitterdust to their list by using the right Domains or Revelations or Archetypes.
Why can't you play a wizard that focuses on buffing your friend, and then doing battle control. Your friend will feel like it is more of a team effort, and you are setting him up to knock down the bad guys. All the while, you know that he wouldn't be so bad ass without your help.
So bard is too weak for a two man campaign?
Will need a full caster? Preferably Cleric/Oracle?
So bard is too weak for a two man campaign?
Will need a full caster? Preferably Cleric/Oracle?
Much of that answer will depend on your DM. If it were me, I'd adjust encounters down to accommodate a two man group.
If you wan to replicate the abilities of a 4 PC group, I'd mirror what has been said above. Have your friend play a character that is versatile like a ranger with an animal companion. You can play a druid with a companion, or a wizard who supports and summons monsters to distract enemies.
I'd agree that a bard isn't the best in a two man group. They are great support players, but won't be as good as other options.
Incidentally, if your problem with arcane gishes is a problem with the Magus, you certainly don't need to go Magus to have an interesting and powerful caster/battle hybrid. You could do something like:
Elven Hwicca-Warrior
Lore Warden Fighter 1/ Strength Patron Hedge Witch 6/ Eldritch Knight
Elf: 13STR, 15/17DEX, 14\12CON, 15/17INT, 10WIS, 8CHA
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack, Wayang Spellhunter: Ill Omen / Drawback: Paranoid
1LW. Weapon Finesse / +F: Elven Battle Training
2HW. *HEX: Cauldron*
3HW. Elven Battle Style / *HEX: Flight*
4HW {+1DEX}
5HW. Power Attack / *Spontaneous Healing*
6HW
7EK. Elven Battle Focus / +EK: Weapon Focus: Elven Curved Blade
8EK {+1INT}
9EK. Quicken Spell
10EK
11EK. Weapon Specialization: Elven Curved Blade / +EK: Improved Critical: Elven Curved Blade
Since Strength Patron Witch gets access to both Divine Favor and Heroism, you've got no issues at all with accuracy. Elven Battle Focus will add 1.5xINT to damage with an elven curved blade, so between that, Power Attack and Divine Favor, damage gets huge. With good DEX and Mage Armor (or eventually an enchanted silken ceremonial armor) AC is pretty good; throwing on the min/level Ironskin spell will make you a tank.
Thanks to Hedge Witch, you can spontaneously convert spells into healing spells if you really need to; and the Cauldron Hex lets you brew potions.
For offensive spellcasting, the Witch can use Ill Omen (and eventually Quickened Ill Omen) to completely mess with a single target, and they have access to things like Glitterdust and Confusion to sow chaos. Spellcasting levels are at Wizard -2, so they're still quite strong; Magical Knack means that you've got no loss of caster level.
As someone who has who as just finished ROTRL, you need a healer. Let me repeat YOU NEED A HEALER! I'd recommend Druid with a powerful animal companion because of the smallness of the party and some of the Druid Spells allowed the last book to happen for my group.
I would recommend a Slayer for your friend and a Shaman for you.
Gives you a ranger/Rogue, and a Witch/Oracle. The classic four roles are all covered then (well kind of...)
If it were me I would probably go cleric of Abadar with the nobility and travel domains. At level seven use the cohort to plug any obvious gaps. Focus on summoning, buffing and healing in that order and negotiate with the GM to come up with a decent list of summons for the sacred summons feat.
I would always keep within one movement action of my companions and domain spells like dimension door and teleport would primarily be used to help the party escape from sticky situations.
Edit: regarding the other player, I wouldn't steer them towards any particular class but I would help them build whatever concept they wanted.
RotRL with just two is going to be tough. Having a newbie in the mix is going to make it tougher. OP, please point your GM to this post.
If both players were experienced, I would suggest gestalt, or mythic tiers, or both. Gestalt would address the problem of covering the needed party roles, because you'd have the abilities of 4 characters wrapped up in 2. Mythic would address the problem of having fewer actions than normal, because the whole system is saturated with ways to do more stuff in one turn.
However, with a newbie as one player, however, that level of complexity is much too great. The new player needs to enjoy the game, and very few people enjoy getting drowned in complexity. Learning the game is hard enough as it is without bolting on secondary classes or mythic stuff.
So, if I were running RotRL for two, I would:
1) Give both players excellent stats. Probably roll 1d10+8 for each ability, generate two sets of stats, and pick one set.
2) Maximum hit points at every level. That includes any animal companions in the group.
3) A free teamwork feat at level 1, 6, 11 and 16. Naturally both players have to take the same feat. I'd suggest Stealth Synergy and Outflank. If both players agree that there aren't teamwork feats they both want at those levels, they can take a regular feat instead.
4) Hero points, as in the APG: 3 per level, and you can use 2 of them to cheat death. I'd be generous in giving out replacement hero points between levels if you do something cool. Use physical tokens for these so the players don't forget that they have them. I use some Fate tokens I got in a Kickstarter that Campaign Coins ran a while ago for this.
That would help a good bit without over-complicating things. If it still proves too difficult I might make further adjustments, like, say, increasing all of their base saving throws to a "fast" progress, like a monk of the same level.
In terms of specific changes to RotRL:
[spoiler=Super Sekrit Campaign stuff, no...
I'm not op, but I am attempting to solo rotrl, which class would you reccomend.
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