I mean, I know it doesn't. I just read another thread where someone brought up that it doesn't (as an example of abilities that don't stack), and rather than derail that thread, I made this thread.
Is there some balance issue I'm not seeing here? Because it appears (to me) that there aren't many ways to get multiple Channel Energy powers that wouldn't be counterproductive in the long run- so what really would be the harm if they did stack to determine effectiveness?
(The only exception I can see to that is one of the Shaman archetypes that appears to give you two different Channels on the same class progression, but I'm not sure that's intended to begin with.)
I mean, yes, you'd get more uses of Channel if you were, say, a Cleric/Oracle (Life), and so if they stacked you'd be more effective than a straight-class healer, but...so? You're giving up higher level spells and other abilities for a very niche advantage, right?
A spirit guide oracle with double life can have two full sets of channels at level 7.
Ah, thank you, I'll add that to the Witch Doctor Shaman. But Channel Energy didn't stack before they existed, so I guess that makes the question:
"Why was it ruled Channel Energy doesn't stack before it was broken by archetypes?" Lol.
Channel Energy? Broken? First time I've ever heard that!
Well, by 'broken', I mean "it would be messed up if it stacked when an archetype gives it to you twice". Whether or not THAT would be broken is debatable, I don't think so, but I've never really seen someone who channels as a Cleric four levels higher either.
The issue comes with the way they get uses. Cleric gets 3+cha. Paladins get uses by using 2 lay on hands. If they stacked, the cleric 1 paladin X would now have really good channels that doesn't use any of their lay on hands.
Plus having the uses stack Cleric 1 oracle X would have 4+2*cha full powered channels.
The issue comes with the way they get uses. Cleric gets 3+cha. Paladins get uses by using 2 lay on hands. If they stacked, the cleric 1 paladin X would now have really good channels that doesn't use any of their lay on hands.
Plus having the uses stack Cleric 1 oracle X would have 4+2*cha full powered channels.
I don't think you would even get Cha twice if it worked like any other pool (such as Panache, Grit and Luck). Though the point of different expenditures makes sense.
Not only that, but consider classes like the Necromancer, where their channel energy feature can only be used in specific ways.
If anything, their mistake was using the same name to describe all these various abilities, not that they don't stack, and that's the reason they don't: they're often completely different class features.
Maybe? I don't really see how diluting your Paladin's build to get more uses of Channel Energy, even if it's 3+ more, by taking a Cleric level, would be a problem.
But you did bring up a point I didn't consider- the design policy for Pathfinder, which is to dis-incentivize (is that a word? Maybe I'm spelling it wrong) multiclassing. If multiclassing could give you a benefit better than single classing, even if it's also giving you a penalty somewhere (slower progression on Paladin abilities), that may run counter to Pathfinder's expectations, which is a possible reason for rulings that Channel doesn't stack, or the Ability score bonus FAQ.
I think it's more that it just creates a bunch of really confusing, messed up interactions. I was at work before, so I couldn't really do this, but now that I'm home:
A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric casts spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric's level + the cleric's Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channeled energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect. A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.
At 2nd level, a soul warden can expend a use of his channel damage ability to spontaneously cast from a select group of spells. At 4th level and every 2 levels thereafter, a soul warden gains access to a number of additional spells he can cast in this manner. The spells a soul warden can cast with this ability (and the soul warden level necessary to cast such spells) are listed below.
Level Spells
2nd Decompose corpseUM, detect undead, hide from undead, sanctify corpse
4th Command undead, necromantic burden (see page 27)
6th Disrupting weapon, halt undead, searing light
8th Death ward, undeath inversion (see page 27), wall of fire
10th Breath of life, heal, undeath to death
And so on. None of those intuitively interact with each other. Some of them have extremely confusing interactions if you were to even attempt to stack them.
Sure, Oracle, Shaman, and Cleric use similar verbiage (though who would multiclass cleric and Life Oracle/Shaman anyway?) but don't forget there are some features that *do* stack channel energy:
I think it's much less a disincentive against multiclassing than it is just trying to keep players' heads from exploding.
In 3.0, one of my first PCs was a LG human cleric X/paladin 2. He was fun. Lots of sub-optimal feats, like Brew Potion and some feat that let me double my Strength bonus to damage when I charged.
I think Channel Energy is such a mess because it is half-trying to be backward compatible and half-trying to useful and also was initially a cleric-only mechanic, so the designers didn't think to make it multiclass-compatible.
It should probably work like sneak attack (usually) works, where all Channel Energy dice (not levels) stack, regardless of source. Uses per day should probably the based on the class that grants the most uses per day. So a cleric/oracle of Life would get 3 + Cha uses, not 4 + double cha uses.
Or they should make it so all Energy Channelers can do so 1/2 their level + the Charisma modifier times per day. And have multiclassed channelers stack all their levels for that.
issue is the paladin, which is also core, has channel that is completely different mechanic than cleric. They need to spend LoHs to cast it. If you say just use the better pool, then they take 1 level dip into cleric, get a large, now separate and full strength pool of channel energy, and 2 domain powers. Sounds like a pretty great dip.
WP also converts fervor into channel energy at a new funky pace, being 1d6 per 3 levels.
This ability just isn't set to be able to stack.
Exactly.
It would have to be redesigned so it can stack across all classes.