we cannot have deck plans drawn in a 1.5 meter reference scale, the squares must be five feet across instead.
I used photoshop to make a battle grid with 1 in squares divided into 3 subdivisions. I leave it to the world at large to decide whether the 1 inch squares are scaled to 5 feet or 1.5 meters and whether the subdivisions scale to 20 inches or 50 centimeters.
Not to come off as too grognardy, but given how much math I familiarized my self with as a child by playing Dungeons and Dragons, I'm disheartened too see that "Divide by 5, multiply by 1.5" is considered an overly complex calculation.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Divide by 5, multiply by 1.5 . . . . why not just multiply by 3, divide by 10? Seems an even simpler way of going.we cannot have deck plans drawn in a 1.5 meter reference scale, the squares must be five feet across instead.I used photoshop to make a battle grid with 1 in squares divided into 3 subdivisions. I leave it to the world at large to decide whether the 1 inch squares are scaled to 5 feet or 1.5 meters and whether the subdivisions scale to 20 inches or 50 centimeters.
Not to come off as too grognardy, but given how much math I familiarized my self with as a child by playing Dungeons and Dragons, I'm disheartened too see that "Divide by 5, multiply by 1.5" is considered an overly complex calculation.
That's what I do too.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the German localization of Pathfinder (and indeed 3rd edition) uses metrics. It makes the random height charts for races look kind of bizarre. A human male for example is 145 + 2d10 x 2.5 cm tall.
Divide by 5, multiply by 1.5 . . . . why not just multiply by 3, divide by 10? Seems an even simpler way of going.we cannot have deck plans drawn in a 1.5 meter reference scale, the squares must be five feet across instead.I used photoshop to make a battle grid with 1 in squares divided into 3 subdivisions. I leave it to the world at large to decide whether the 1 inch squares are scaled to 5 feet or 1.5 meters and whether the subdivisions scale to 20 inches or 50 centimeters.
Not to come off as too grognardy, but given how much math I familiarized my self with as a child by playing Dungeons and Dragons, I'm disheartened too see that "Divide by 5, multiply by 1.5" is considered an overly complex calculation.
I was using 5 and 1.5 because Paizo's battlemats and maps have little squares on them, which scale to 5 ft/ 1.5 meters, but if you're happier doing a calculation based on 3m = 10 feet, be my guest. ;)
I was using 5 and 1.5 because Paizo's battlemats and maps have little squares on them, which scale to 5 ft/ 1.5 meters, but if you're happier doing a calculation based on 3m = 10 feet, be my guest. ;)Divide by 5, multiply by 1.5 . . . . why not just multiply by 3, divide by 10? Seems an even simpler way of going.we cannot have deck plans drawn in a 1.5 meter reference scale, the squares must be five feet across instead.I used photoshop to make a battle grid with 1 in squares divided into 3 subdivisions. I leave it to the world at large to decide whether the 1 inch squares are scaled to 5 feet or 1.5 meters and whether the subdivisions scale to 20 inches or 50 centimeters.
Not to come off as too grognardy, but given how much math I familiarized my self with as a child by playing Dungeons and Dragons, I'm disheartened too see that "Divide by 5, multiply by 1.5" is considered an overly complex calculation.
5 feet x 3 = 15
15 / 10 = 1.5 metersIt doesn't only apply to 3m/10' increments. And the math is slightly easier to do. Dividing by 10 is as easy as just adding a point before the last digit. dividing by 5 may actually involve some calculation.
Sure, but if you play on a grid, you're already dividing by five every time you move you mini by squares instead of pushing your mini 5mm for each foot of movement, right? When you divide by five, that gives you the number of squares your mini can move, or shoot an arrow, or whatever. How is saying 5 x 3 = 15 / 10 = 1.5 simpler than looking at a 1inch/25mm square and saying "That's 1.5 meters."?
if you'Re playing with metrics, i would assume you have already converted your speed to meters.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We are playing a mix of things, metrics and american both, in Austria.
Our character sheets have our weights in lbs. our speeds in sq., weapon ranges for ranged weapons in mostly sq. and meters.
...
I mean, I literally can't comprehend feets at all :P I have no clue how much 20 feet is, I assume its a lot since 10 feet cube creatures are apparently giants, but I really can't imagine it in my mind.
20 feet is 4 sq. if you are going for a battlemap.
If you want to guess the distance just for reference in your mind, look for the closest multiple of 3, so you'd have 20ft. be less than 7m.
1 foot is a bit larger than a mans foot, roughly 1/3rd of a meter.
The US as a whole should go metric. But that's a different argument.it is metric.
all the customary units are defined in metric.
it's just that the metric system is overlaid by the customary units.
yes, it's horribly backward, but the USA is a metric country officially.
But not one culturally, and that's where the difference lies Coke may be sold in 2 liter bottles but milk and gas andheating oil are still bought by the gallon and the fines on your speeding ticketa are still done in miles per hour.
We're America. Counting by tens is hard for us due to all the cheap beer available from foreign consortiums.
We're America. Counting by tens is hard for us due to all the cheap beer available from foreign consortiums.
We're America, and like France in some ways, there are elements in the country that have an irrational resistance to globalism. They resist the use of metric BECAUSE the rest of the world is using it.
At least we drive on the correct side of the road :)
At least we drive on the correct side of the road :)
Yes I appreciate how convenient it is for us left-handed people.
And France created the metric system...no wonder they resist it so strongly
For France, the area of resisting globalism is generally Hollywood movies.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Metric and Imperial both have their issues. For a sci-fan game like Starfinder, I think they should use the dozenal system TGM(Tim, Grafut, Maz).
Be unique, and this way the whole world has to worry about converting so Paizo wouldn't be biased toward anyone.
When the options are:
(1) Please the majority of the audience.(2) Please the widest cross-section of the audience.
(3) Please no one.
I don't see how you arrive at (3) being the preferred choice.
I'm so used to Imperial system in RPG's that metric is going to feel strange in Starfinder. So I vote Imperial :)
Its not that hard. If you're a tall man, a foot (the unit) is roughly as long as your foot (the body part).
It's pretty off, actually. The average shoe size for someone over 6 feet (US) is an 11 to 12 sized shoe. Coincidentally, I wear a 12.
My feet are only 10 inches long.
Being off by 1/6 of the measure you're trying to make is pretty significant when you're figuring over both long and short distances.
So the problem boils down to is someone of above average height with above average foot size for their height MIGHT correspond to an actual foot.
For the average person, of average height (I'm 2 inches below the average of 5' 10"), with an average shoe size for their height (about a size 10) it isn't going to be anywhere close, really.
In Australia we converted to the metric system in the 1960s so it feels right for low tech settings like Pathfinder and D&D to use Imperial measurements. Starfinder using Imperial measurements will seem weird to me, but I understand why Paizo elected to go that way.
I am curious about one thing: does the U.S. army use the metric system? I remember seeing old army maps from the 1960s that were used for the Vietnam-America war and to my surprise the scale was in metres and kilometres. I am interested to know whether that was an anomaly.
I am curious about one thing: does the U.S. army use the metric system?
In the interest of playing well with others (especially NATO), the U.S. military uses the metric system a fair bit, but not uniformly.In addition, NATO members use feet for flying altitude. The U.S. Navy and Air Force use Nautical Miles. Non-Navy heavy guns are measured in metric units, but aircraft ordnance is measured in pounds.
It's a bit of a jumble. Ground units do tend to use kilometers for distance, though, at least the last I asked my buddies.
(Lifelong civilian-in-military-orbit here... someone with more immediate knowledge, please step in and correct me if I'm wrong)
What does having specific weights and measurements accomplish? What is it supposed to accomplish? Suspension of disbelief.
How far can the average human accurately 'eyeball' something on length, distance, weight, volume, or anything else, without so much as a tape measure or a scale or a clock...
We know what a second feels like but how accurate is our internal minute (count by seconds if you want), or when can you guess accuratelwhen an hour has passed without looking at any instrument or anything in nature to clue you in.
A foot or meter, even a few of those are not hard to guesstimate. But there is a certain point beyond which it just turns into numbers on paper that get plugged into an equation to get another answer you actually need.
A kobold can march 300 zlirs per drumbang. One zlir is a unit of distance. A gong is a unit of time. One zlir equals 60 ziks. One zik is the height of the kobold chief's belt off the ground. How long is a drumbang? If we were talking about how far a kobold could march in an hour, the 300 zlirs would be some other number and unit, and you'd still have to do math or look it up on a table to find the answer.
It doesn't matter how familiar sounding the units are. It's still just math with different numbers.
|
And France created the metric system...no wonder they resist it so stronglyFor France, the area of resisting globalism is generally Hollywood movies.
Not really. We love watching those as much as the next country. We might dislike admitting to it though :-)
What we try to resist would be McDonald "restaurants". With little success AFAIK.
It doesn't matter how familiar sounding the units are. It's still just math with different numbers.
I think this totally underestimates the power of familiarity. Those of us who have grown up with English units are so familiar with them we have an intuitive sense of how long a foot is, how big a gallon is, how heavy 5 pounds are. We can instantly visualize them but not metric as well. I expect the same is true for people living with metric in thei daily lives. It's not simply a matter of replacement of terms like a computer cuts and pastes. It requires real mental work. Sometimes that work's worthwhile (like using the metric system for scientific purposes) sometimes not, like using fictitious units for kobolds in a RPG.
To be fair, the people actually living in the Pathfinder/Starfinder world probably don't use either the imperial or metric systems, just like they don't speak English. It's all just our translation of their imaginary reality. :D
Actually . . . You'd be surprised about English and the Universe.
Here's a funfact about metrics in Path/Starfinder:
Because on the standard battle mats 5 feet is represented by 1 inch, any speed or range in feet in the books translates to (almost) exactly half as many centimeters on the table.
Boomerang Nebula wrote:
I am curious about one thing: does the U.S. army use the metric system?
The U.S. "officially" uses metric. But to the average day to day things imperial is used. About the only metric I can use is somewhat meters for distance when shooting. And to show when among just U.S. the ruck marches are in miles 12 and 25 being the big two I have been in, never finished the second one though. So personally I mix in just meters, not centimeters or kilometers, to my measurements and likely the only reason I can do that reasonably well is how close it and yards are.
In the movies and video games they always talk about klicks, which is kilometers.
|
|
I find it somewhat ironic that the USA so vehemently uphold the system used by an Empire which they proudly rejected 240 years ago ;-)They rejected the Empire mainly for not holding up it's own Imperial standards for treatment of it's subjects in the Colonies. That, and the fact that the English were about to abolish slavery.
Then why do the US drive on the proper side of the road ? :-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There's also "kilos" but only when dealing with chemistry (legal and otherwise)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Metric would fit fine. It does in tons of other US heavy RPGs, and might help people operate easier in 10s.
Spoilering some more US v Metric below:
Historically, different areas used different measures, depending on their parent nationality. Texas, for instance, is chock full of the Vara, an indistinct unit of measure approximating the Spanish yard that was Codified into 33.33333333r inches (2.77777r feet or 0.8467m). One hundred seventy odd years later, many places still use the original vara their grandfather's grandfather's deed was written in. Standardization is still going, but there is a good deal of resistance in the title insurance business to even change the unit of a deed to a legally standard or modern unit. And that is just Texas, a state with 80% of its population being in an urban area already generally adhering to feet for land measure (and the relevant state plane coordinate systems which are also feet).
At best, I can see the US eventually adopting a quasi-metric approach to measure similar to the UK. We could 'functionally' use SI compatible units, and teach metric standards, but all of our land records and conveyances still operate by a more antiquated and established standard.
TL;DR: Land is why we won't go metric.
** spoiler omitted **...
I just learned something new; thanks for sharing your experience. :)
who plows in squares, *pfft* be serious.
It depends on the soil. For heavy clay soils (like much of northern europe), you need a heavier plow, so you want to turn less. Thus, rectangles are far better.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Makes it easier to convert from pathfinder to starfinder, if someone pulls out a crossbow and begins shooting at enemy troops when their laser guns run out of charge, you don't have to convert from imperial to metric, also the Imperial system uses traditional units, One has to ask, who invented the Metric System in Starfinder if it is used?In Australia we converted to the metric system in the 1960s so it feels right for low tech settings like Pathfinder and D&D to use Imperial measurements. Starfinder using Imperial measurements will seem weird to me, but I understand why Paizo elected to go that way.
I am curious about one thing: does the U.S. army use the metric system? I remember seeing old army maps from the 1960s that were used for the Vietnam-America war and to my surprise the scale was in metres and kilometres. I am interested to know whether that was an anomaly.
Not anymore than you'd have to ask who invented the Imperial system.
As for conversions, you'll most likely find that measurements will conform to an integer number of squares on the battlemap, the same way they do in Pathfinder... 20 feet is 4 squares, 30 is 6, and so on.
I always figured turning 5 feet into 1 meter makes conversion fairly simple.
I mean sure 1 meter is smaller than 5 feet but having '5 feet' be the most important distance unit was pretty arbitrary anyway. No reason you can't have a 'one meter step' rather than a 'five foot step'.
I always figured turning 5 feet into 1 meter makes conversion fairly simple.
I mean sure 1 meter is smaller than 5 feet but having '5 feet' be the most important distance unit was pretty arbitrary anyway. No reason you can't have a 'one meter step' rather than a 'five foot step'.
A meter is just a smidge more than a yard. 5 feet is getting close to 2 meters. I believe star wars d20 rounded 2 meters to a standard 5 foot square.
A meter is just a smidge more than a yard. 5 feet is getting close to 2 meters. I believe star wars d20 rounded 2 meters to a standard 5 foot square.I always figured turning 5 feet into 1 meter makes conversion fairly simple.
I mean sure 1 meter is smaller than 5 feet but having '5 feet' be the most important distance unit was pretty arbitrary anyway. No reason you can't have a 'one meter step' rather than a 'five foot step'.
Sure but there's no reason that a metrified version of d20 would have to be close to the actual length of five feet for its square equivalent. Much easier to just say 5 foot = 1 meter now and go with it. I don't see any downside and the benefit is a conversion that is as simple as possible. And easier for gaming too. 1 meter = 1 square!
Sure but there's no reason that a metrified version of d20 would have to be close to the actual length of five feet for its square equivalent. Much easier to just say 5 foot = 1 meter now and go with it. I don't see any downside and the benefit is a conversion that is as simple as possible. And easier for gaming too. 1 meter = 1 square!A meter is just a smidge more than a yard. 5 feet is getting close to 2 meters. I believe star wars d20 rounded 2 meters to a standard 5 foot square.I always figured turning 5 feet into 1 meter makes conversion fairly simple.
I mean sure 1 meter is smaller than 5 feet but having '5 feet' be the most important distance unit was pretty arbitrary anyway. No reason you can't have a 'one meter step' rather than a 'five foot step'.
What was that? That was the sound of unnumbered metric purists spinning in their graves.
Starfinder is not pure SF. It's science Fantasy, so using traditional measurements sort of makes sense. There's no point to follow the lead of all of the countries that have no sense of history and are afraid of doing simple arithmetic.
I think you'd want to use larger squares than that. Effective range in ground combat of a hundred squares leads to maps that don't fit on any normal sort of table, and I'd be surprised if there was as much emphasis on close quarters fighting as in PF. If I had to use a grid I'd go with personal combat squares at about the size of one persons movement, 30 feet/ 10 metres, and have melee attack range being a target in the same square, pistol/shotgun/SMG normal range the next square, and try to keep the longest personal weapons range down to thirty squares.
If the scale is wrong on your map, simply use the scrollwheel to adjust the zoom. We don't live in the dark ages anymore.