Good spells for a paranoid high level caster


Advice


2 people marked this as a favorite.

A local DM has offered to run some of our PFS 19/20 characters through his version of the star stone cathedral. (Obviously this will not be PFS, but the rest was).

I would like my sorcerer to be prepared for anything. We have plenty of gold at this point so scrolls are not a problem. What spells aught a paranoid caster bring for such an adventure?

Thus far I'm brining:

Contingency (plane shift remains and gear to demiplane if I die and am still dead 10 Sec latter)
Spell turning
Mind blank
shrink item (cast on a lead hat, made with magnificent pigments)
Greater false life
Heightened awareness/anticipate peril
Akashic form
Aroden's spell bane (dispel, dispel greater, disjunction, wish, anti magic field, trap the soul)
Long strider, greater
Moment of prescience
Foresight
Arcane sight greater
Aram Zey's Trap Ward
Magic Jar (into a different body, what ever I can find)
Death Ward
Bestow Grace
Firey body (for all those immunities)

Silver Crusade

Protection from Evil:

Simple enough but it blocks summoned creatures.

Dimensional Anchor:

Not a sexy spell and often used offensively, but it can stop people Dimension Dooring about the place. Or getting reinforcements.

I'd say See Invisibility but you should have had that permenencied by 19th level. You can Permanency up Detect Magic, Arcane Sight, Darkvision, Tongues, See Invisibility so do that.

Actually, as a Sorcerer, you shouldnt be using spell slots on things like Contingency and Permanency anyway, use scrolls.

Boo hiss to the shrink Item massive hat thing. Aroden's Spellbane has that covered anyway. Bloody silly spell and one of the best in the game.

Replace Magic Jar with Possession or Greater Possession if you are super Paranoid. If you can boost past their Protection from Good it's the best offensive spell too.

Looks like you are going to have to spend money on Extend Rods to cast all that before a battle.

I might forego Greater False life. You need the spell slots and nobody is going to try to physically hit a 20th level Sorcerer, it's a waste of time. If they do land a blow you are dead anyway. Maybe buy a scrolljust in case you lose HP from an AoE or something.

Wall of Force/Stone can be used defensively, but not precast, obviously.

Prismatic Sphere if you just want to survive, though it doesn't help the party much. Prismatic Wall is possibly better as a party defence spell to keep mooks out.

Protection from Energy (Cold). You are vulnerable with Fiery body and Resist Energy only does 30 points, hardly worth it. PfE will stop 120 points, but only once. Better?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Emergency force sphere from Cheliax Empire of Devils is very nice, provided you can escape your own box after casting. Life Bubble also very nice for everything you don't want to inhale.

Silver Crusade

What do you need, and what is practical?

Akashic Form - scroll needed.

Fiery Body - Sorcerer slot. You need it so you need it, you'll cast it every battle anyway. Note this means you do not need Dex Enhancement belt as it gives you +6 so spend the money on Con/Wis.

Bestow Grace - scroll. Might be cheaper to get lots of lower level scrolls. Still, you need it. 36 Cha gives you +13 to all saves, you need to be able to beat DC 30 without panicking.

Death Ward -scroll, but you need it.

Mind Blank - +8 to most Will, with +12 from levels and +13 from Bestow Grace = 33 means that you should now be immune to Will attacks without rolling. So tick that box.

Any plans to hit the enemy? What is the rest of the party?


0o0o0 O 0o0o0 wrote:
Protection from Evil...

This is a good idea, I will have to decide if I would rather pick up spell lattices, with the protection spells (1k a piece, use my spell slots) or just pick up some scrolls of the magic circle spells (longer duration, 375g a piece.


Ryzoken wrote:
Emergency force sphere from Cheliax Empire of Devils is very nice, provided you can escape your own box after casting. Life Bubble also very nice for everything you don't want to inhale.

EFS is a beauty of a spell, even nicer when combined with spells that do not require line of effect.


0o0o0 O 0o0o0 wrote:

What do you need, and what is practical?

Any plans to hit the enemy? What is the rest of the party?

My party is pretty good on doing enough damage to eat through things. My role has been to fix things. I have the Razmiran Sorcerer archtype (maybe I should have stated that to begin with), so at this level I can pretty much bring people back with impunity, as long as I am alive to do it.

My philosophy going into this is that as long as I am alive, I can fix almost any problem the party has once the dust settles. As a result, I'm looking for ways to ensure my survival.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The protection from energy cold may be nice too. As an aside, I may use three alchemist fires as material components with the resist cold to bring the cold resistance up to 36.


MichaelCullen wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
Emergency force sphere from Cheliax Empire of Devils is very nice, provided you can escape your own box after casting. Life Bubble also very nice for everything you don't want to inhale.
EFS is a beauty of a spell, even nicer when combined with spells that do not require line of effect.

I am hard pressed to think of an offensive spell that does not require line of effect. Even summoning spells require LoE to the summon's point of summoning. Which spell(s) were you thinking of using?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ryzoken wrote:
MichaelCullen wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
Emergency force sphere from Cheliax Empire of Devils is very nice, provided you can escape your own box after casting. Life Bubble also very nice for everything you don't want to inhale.
EFS is a beauty of a spell, even nicer when combined with spells that do not require line of effect.
I am hard pressed to think of an offensive spell that does not require line of effect. Even summoning spells require LoE to the summon's point of summoning. Which spell(s) were you thinking of using?

Magic Jar explicitly doesn't require line of effect (one reason why it may be the most abuseable spell in the game).

Possession is similar to Magic Jar.

Create mindscape implicitly doesn't require line of effect. (Spell says it does not require line of sight, but then gives an example of working through a door without line of effect)


at levels 15+ you should have most of your tricks figured out.

not dying tricks
#1 is read the PFS items that can save you thread.
Vanish, Mage Armor, Shield, Illusion of Calm, Shield Other, False Life, Bear's CON, Ablative Barrier, Blur, Blink, Displacement, Mirror Image, Silent Table, Tiny Hut, Emergency Force Sphere, Resilient Sphere, Shadow Projection, Magic Jar, Project Image, and other singular spells in a mage's toolkit are not mentioned. Pick up Blood Money (for Stoneskin), Blacklight as it's non-PFS.

not being there tricks (there are several pathways)
not being targetable tricks
not being hit tricks
deflecting/absorbing ranged attacks
deflecting/absorbing/countering magical attacks


Detect Scrying
Nondetection


MichaelCullen wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
MichaelCullen wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
Emergency force sphere from Cheliax Empire of Devils is very nice, provided you can escape your own box after casting. Life Bubble also very nice for everything you don't want to inhale.
EFS is a beauty of a spell, even nicer when combined with spells that do not require line of effect.
I am hard pressed to think of an offensive spell that does not require line of effect. Even summoning spells require LoE to the summon's point of summoning. Which spell(s) were you thinking of using?

Magic Jar explicitly doesn't require line of effect (one reason why it may be the most abuseable spell in the game).

Possession is similar to Magic Jar.

Create mindscape implicitly doesn't require line of effect. (Spell says it does not require line of sight, but then gives an example of working through a door without line of effect)

Ah. Right. Magic Jar.

Guess I need to re-examine posession and mindscape. Didn't realize the latter is potentially offensive.


BigDTBone wrote:

Detect Scrying

Nondetection

Detect scrying might be useful. Put it up at the beginning of the day with a scroll, it would make the caster level check dependent part unlikely to succeed but knowing the attempt happened could still be useful.

Nondetection probably would not help to much as Mind Blank is basically a better version. Unless I am being extra paranoid and prepping for the case where something negates the mind blank.... I do like extra layers of protection, I'm just not sure if that juice is worth the squeeze.... It might be


Ryzoken wrote:
MichaelCullen wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
MichaelCullen wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
Emergency force sphere from Cheliax Empire of Devils is very nice, provided you can escape your own box after casting. Life Bubble also very nice for everything you don't want to inhale.
EFS is a beauty of a spell, even nicer when combined with spells that do not require line of effect.
I am hard pressed to think of an offensive spell that does not require line of effect. Even summoning spells require LoE to the summon's point of summoning. Which spell(s) were you thinking of using?

Magic Jar explicitly doesn't require line of effect (one reason why it may be the most abuseable spell in the game).

Possession is similar to Magic Jar.

Create mindscape implicitly doesn't require line of effect. (Spell says it does not require line of sight, but then gives an example of working through a door without line of effect)

Ah. Right. Magic Jar.

Guess I need to re-examine posession and mindscape. Didn't realize the latter is potentially offensive.

Mind scape has great possibilities. Mostly for getting arround line of effect requirements. Pull their mind into the mindscape and then hit it with a charm/compulsion or similar effect.


Ryzoken wrote:


Guess I need to re-examine posession and mindscape. Didn't realize the latter is potentially offensive.

Greater Mindscape is grossly overpowered as an offensive tool if you boost the range with metamagic. Pull an enemy target and some beefy allies into a specially prepared mindscape, beat it to death. Is it a magician? Make it a dead magic mindscape.


as with many spells of the Illusion school, make your Will save and the spell is generally rendered ineffective. Then the guy who made it tells his friends that failed and they get a +4 on their save or in this case tells them how to end the spell...

I don't know that extending the range helps as Greater Create Mindscape has a range of 400 +40*CstrLvl ft and only affects (most likely a random) CstrLvl intelligent creatures. A caster would find it more effective to affect more creatures.

The spell also requires some forethought, planning, and a good bit of creativity along with GM approval. A complex spell to be sure.


Extended range let's you pick an inn especially far away from the palace when you cast it to pull the king in and kill him at 2 am. Mindscape only allows a save after you're already inside. It's Will save for disbelief, not negation, and the text species they only get that save once they've interacted with the mindscape, and then only to learn where the exit is. They'll be dead by then unless they sleep with their gear and are really good at evading ambushes, or sleep with extended Greater Spell Immunity keyed to this spell.

It's grotesquely overpowered as an assasination tool. It needs to be close range, save negates (plus disbelief), require line of effect, or preferably all of the above to rein it in.


Full rules for mindscapes appear on pages 234–237 of Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures. Review PFS scenario 7-01 which has a very powerful permanent mindscape.

Mindscape Door allows immediate exit (for everyone) even in dead magic mindscapes.

A targeted creature may show up with all his gear, it's up to the GM. It's a mental projection per se not a forced teleportation.

I think you are taking worst case interpretation as the baseline. It's very much in the hands of the GM. I agree that the targeting should be more restricted but it's RAW at this point. I'd prefer an initial save like Scrying spell based on personal knowledge of the target. BTW it's a random pull from all sentient creatures in range, not just some people in an inn (although that example is given). Increasing the range just increases the sample set to pull from.

Azothath wrote:
The spell also requires some forethought, planning, and a good bit of creativity along with GM approval. A complex spell to be sure.
Create Mindscape wrote:
The GM decides whether a method of escape is reasonable. Anything that would be a reasonable method of waking from a dream during deep sleep could allow one to leave a mindscape.

before running this in a game, I think it would be helpful to review materials on the Dreamlands and dream magic. There are direct analogies.

While not outlined, IMO casting Dispel Magic on an affected (sleeping) target and making the check would expel that person from the mindscape.

end of derail

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Good spells for a paranoid high level caster All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.