Just as it says. I'm pretty sure their is some rulling on it some where but I can't find it.
Can a ape use a great sword and other weapons?
Can it shoot a bow?
Can it take a proformance feat?
Can it wear heavy armor?
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I mean, RAW I don't think there's a rule against it, if he has the right feats. But I think that's where the GM is supposed to come in and point out "that doesnt make sense".
This is very much in GM territory, but probably not.
relevant blog An ape will carry a shield, but probably won't use it to actively defend itself.
While primarily PFS oriented this is stillnearly everything you need to know about animal companions.
Apes are animals and have animal intelligence. They are limited to a specific set of skills and feats they can take until their intelligence is raised above the animal range.
For specifics, Apes are Int 2 and have the Animal type. From the Animal creature type, these creatures are only proficient with their natural weapons and no armor or shields.
The rules for skills/feats for animals are more fully fleshed out in the Animal Companion rules set. Therein, there is a section entitled Animal Skills and another entitled Animal Feats. This section is where it is stated that ranks in other skills or other feats cannot be taken until the companion has an Int of 3+. While these rules pertain specifically to animal companions, non-AC animals don't have the capacity to progress in skills and feats since they never level up.
Now, I guess a permissive GM would allow someone to use Handle Animal to train an Ape to use a shield, but it would still not count as proficient since it doesn't have the relevant feat. This would result in all the normal non-proficiency penalties.
What if he took all shield feats? And I got the ( eye for an eye: human trait ) and bumped int to 4 at level one?
A "standard RAW" ape in possession of any of those would probably throw them at his target before or while charging and using his natural attacks.
So... Does an ape have "Throw Anything?" Nope. So they are improvised ranged weapons with all the penalties assigned.
So.. YES, an ape can use them, just not as they were designed for use.
Different rules apply if it is not a "standard RAW" ape.
A "standard RAW" ape in possession of any of those would probably throw them at his target before or while charging and using his natural attacks.
So... Does an ape have "Throw Anything?" Nope. So they are improvised ranged weapons with all the penalties assigned.
So.. YES, an ape can use them, just not as they were designed for use.
Different rules apply if it is not a "standard RAW" ape.
So I can go a throw anything build with him? Throw two handed weapons?
Apes are animals and have animal intelligence. They are limited to a specific set of skills and feats they can take until their intelligence is raised above the animal range.
For specifics, Apes are Int 2 and have the Animal type. From the Animal creature type, these creatures are only proficient with their natural weapons and no armor or shields.
The rules for skills/feats for animals are more fully fleshed out in the Animal Companion rules set. Therein, there is a section entitled Animal Skills and another entitled Animal Feats. This section is where it is stated that ranks in other skills or other feats cannot be taken until the companion has an Int of 3+. While these rules pertain specifically to animal companions, non-AC animals don't have the capacity to progress in skills and feats since they never level up.
Now, I guess a permissive GM would allow someone to use Handle Animal to train an Ape to use a shield, but it would still not count as proficient since it doesn't have the relevant feat. This would result in all the normal non-proficiency penalties.
What if he took all shield feats? And I got the ( eye for an eye: human trait ) and bumped int to 4 at level one?
As explained in the rules for Animal Companions, that is ultimately up to GM approval, but speaking as a GM, I would not have a problem with it if the character invested that many resources into having his ape use a shield.
The section on AC feats state that an AC with an Int of 3+ can take any feat it is "physically capable" of using. I think it would be a simple argument that an Ape would be physically capable of using a shield, assuming it's intelligence were raised to a sufficient level that it could understand how and why to use it.
(I'm assuming we're talking about an Animal Companion, as opposed to just buying an Ape from a store.)
Yes a animal companion. I have seen a lot of post about people saying it can't use the item. But people use magic and have dragons as pets. I don't see any where it say that he can't use it.
In fact the FAQ is "if they are physically capable " the ape can actually do a lot more than a human can.Thanks for the reply
I mean, RAW I don't think there's a rule against it, if he has the right feats. But I think that's where the GM is supposed to come in and point out "that doesnt make sense".
I raise you " planet of the apes (Caesar)overwatch ( Winston) and kurjack (Tarzan). I'm just saying you can't say you haven't seen it before.
I mean, RAW I don't think there's a rule against it, if he has the right feats. But I think that's where the GM is supposed to come in and point out "that doesnt make sense".I raise you " planet of the apes (Caesar)overwatch ( Winston) and kurjack (Tarzan). I'm just saying you can't say you haven't seen it before.
The first two are genetically engineered and Kerchak never really does anything more intelligent than the average gorilla, at least as far as I can remember from the novels or Disney. Obviously things are different once you've boosted Int, but the average 2Int animal, regardless of species, isn't going to routinely use equipment.
The first two are genetically engineered and Kerchak never really does anything more intelligent than the average gorilla, at least as far as I can remember from the novels or Disney. Obviously things are different once you've boosted Int, but the average 2Int animal, regardless of species, isn't going to routinely use equipment.I mean, RAW I don't think there's a rule against it, if he has the right feats. But I think that's where the GM is supposed to come in and point out "that doesnt make sense".I raise you " planet of the apes (Caesar)overwatch ( Winston) and kurjack (Tarzan). I'm just saying you can't say you haven't seen it before.
My monkey was givin to me by my GOD cleric. I'm just saying MY GOD could send me a shield monkey. Lol. I get your point though.
I'm just trying to have a thematic animal companions. The usual ones are getting real played out. Especially with the new books coming out.
Sheild Ape is what I wanted and one with a great sword/great club. They are attack and defense I cast buffs and shoot a bow maybe.
I mean, RAW I don't think there's a rule against it, if he has the right feats. But I think that's where the GM is supposed to come in and point out "that doesnt make sense".
So would a bow make sense?
Or a great axe?A gun, Ballista, Tower shield, Snake style, Monkey style, Throw anything, Two weapon fighting, performance feats, Two handed thrower, Quick draw, Tiger style, and if I find a way for him to get sneak attack I can get additional sneak attack feat.
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From the blog linked earlier;
"There are a number of feats that convey an understanding and the proper use of weapons and armor. Generally speaking, these feats are off-limits to animals, but when their intelligence reaches 3, the rules state that they can use any feat that they are physically capable of using. Some people take this to mean that they can equip their animal companion in chainmail and arm him with a greatsword given the correct feats. While you could interpret the rules in this way, the "capable of use" clause is very important. Most weapons require thumbs to use properly, and even then, few animals would choose to use an artificial weapon in place of the natural weapons that have served them all their life. It's what they were born with, after all, and virtually no amount of training will change that. In the end, the GM should feel free to restrict such choices if he feels that they take away from the feel of his campaign. The rules themselves are left a little vague to give the GM the latitude to make the call that's right for his campaign."
As apes DO have opposable thumbs (and often opposable big toes) they would be physically capable of using many tools. However, the preference for natural weaponry would still apply.
Ultimately, the only valid answer is, 'Ask your GM'.
From the blog linked earlier;
"There are a number of feats that convey an understanding and the proper use of weapons and armor. Generally speaking, these feats are off-limits to animals, but when their intelligence reaches 3, the rules state that they can use any feat that they are physically capable of using. Some people take this to mean that they can equip their animal companion in chainmail and arm him with a greatsword given the correct feats. While you could interpret the rules in this way, the "capable of use" clause is very important. Most weapons require thumbs to use properly, and even then, few animals would choose to use an artificial weapon in place of the natural weapons that have served them all their life. It's what they were born with, after all, and virtually no amount of training will change that. In the end, the GM should feel free to restrict such choices if he feels that they take away from the feel of his campaign. The rules themselves are left a little vague to give the GM the latitude to make the call that's right for his campaign."
As apes DO have opposable thumbs (and often opposable big toes) they would be physically capable of using many tools. However, the preference for natural weaponry would still apply.
Ultimately, the only valid answer is, 'Ask your GM'.
Ok thanks.
Apes are animals and have animal intelligence. They are limited to a specific set of skills and feats they can take until their intelligence is raised above the animal range.
For specifics, Apes are Int 2 and have the Animal type. From the Animal creature type, these creatures are only proficient with their natural weapons and no armor or shields.
The rules for skills/feats for animals are more fully fleshed out in the Animal Companion rules set. Therein, there is a section entitled Animal Skills and another entitled Animal Feats. This section is where it is stated that ranks in other skills or other feats cannot be taken until the companion has an Int of 3+. While these rules pertain specifically to animal companions, non-AC animals don't have the capacity to progress in skills and feats since they never level up.
Now, I guess a permissive GM would allow someone to use Handle Animal to train an Ape to use a shield, but it would still not count as proficient since it doesn't have the relevant feat. This would result in all the normal non-proficiency penalties.
What if he took all shield feats? And I got the ( eye for an eye: human trait ) and bumped int to 4 at level one?
Bumping it's Intelligence does not make it any more sentient than a doorknob... it has to be Awakened. As a GM I would not approve any of those options for a non-sentient animal companion.
I think part of the problem is that many people already consider some animals, like gorillas and dolphins, to be sentient. I do find it distasteful that in the game they are no more intelligent than a rabbit.
I think part of the problem is that many people already consider some animals, like gorillas and dolphins, to be sentient. I do find it distasteful that in the game they are no more intelligent than a rabbit.
Dolphins aren't generally an issue that's going to come up as an animal companion choice.
As for Apes and the others..the jury is still out on the issue. While a couple of Apes have been taught to sign, it's questionable whether the observations have been truly untainted. If apes were sentient, the ones taught ASL should have been teaching it to their kin.
I don't think teaching it to kin proves much. I learned French in high school, but i don't seriously try to teach my kids French. ASL is a language created for disabled humans. It wouldn't be very advantageous to undisabled apes living in the wild.
I don't think teaching it to kin proves much. I learned French in high school, but i don't seriously try to teach my kids French. ASL is a language created for disabled humans. It wouldn't be very advantageous to undisabled apes living in the wild.
It is however an extremely handy tool to captive apes looking to get more treats. Having apes deomonstrate the self awareness to make the decision and do this kind of adaptation would be an argument for sentience.
That's the idea behind sentience... that you can adapt yourselves and make decisions beyond those imposed by genetic hardcoding.
Apes are not depicted very realistically in the rules. One noticeable flaw is their strength -- real apes are far stronger than their D&D/Pathfinder counterparts. And we definitely have not determined the full extent of tool use by unawakened apes, either in the wild or when trained by humans.
I suspect that a realistic ape from Earth sent into Golarion would be terrifying.