I'm designing a Tiefling Magus that will be using the wand wielded magus arcana. I plan to have a prehensile tail either way both for fun, and to quickly retrieve more wands. The question I have is whether or not a wand can be activated while being held by a tail. A tail can be used to retrieve objects and also hold onto them. A wand uses the spell trigger activation method which doesn't require any fine manipulation. It only requires the item(wand in this case) to be held, and a command word to be spoken. The one serious issue I can see is the statement that it must be held in a hand(or whatever passes for a hand with non-humanoid creatures.) What this boils down to is whether or not a tail passes for one of those. I believe it should but I am biased. Just curious what both the official and non-official have to say.
Thanks
Probably not. Prehensile Tail lets you retrieve and hold stuff, with nothing about using that stuff.
Probably not. Prehensile Tail lets you retrieve and hold stuff, with nothing about using that stuff.
See that's basically what made me bring it up. Spell trigger states that you are simply completing the casting with a command word. The tail isn't "using it", it's just holding it.
Spell trigger states that you are simply completing the casting with a command word. The tail isn't "using it", it's just holding it.
Depends on how you run touch spells produced by wands. That tail can't make a touch attack.
To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.
You aren't nonhumanoid, so it must be in hand, not tail.
Spell trigger states that you are simply completing the casting with a command word. The tail isn't "using it", it's just holding it.Depends on how you run touch spells produced by wands. That tail can't make a touch attack.
Actually, you don't need to touch someone with the limb that "casted" the spell. You can even deliver a touch spell with a bite attack. So this doesn't matter for the issue at hand.
Actually, you don't need to touch someone with the limb that "casted" the spell.
True, but if you're using your tail for the wand because your other hands are full, then you've got a problem.
You can even deliver a touch spell with a bite attack.
IF you have a bite attack AND are holding the spell.
So this doesn't matter for the issue at hand.
Yes, it does matter, if your GM rules that a touch spell cast from a wand involves touching the wand to the creature to be affected. Some do, some don't.
Actually, you don't need to touch someone with the limb that "casted" the spell.True, but if you're using your tail for the wand because your other hands are full, then you've got a problem.
You can even deliver a touch spell with a bite attack.IF you have a bite attack AND are holding the spell.
So this doesn't matter for the issue at hand.Yes, it does matter, if your GM rules that a touch spell cast from a wand involves touching the wand to the creature to be affected. Some do, some don't.
If they rule you need to touch a creature with the wand then they are already houseruling because you can hold a charge for a touch spell so once the spell is casted You can touch them in whatever way you wanted. Brushing them with your toe would work at that point.
To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.You aren't nonhumanoid, so it must be in hand, not tail.
This is probably the relevant thing to consider. Even if you want to argue that nonhumanoid includes Outsider(Native), your tail isn't what passes for your hands.
Brushing them with your toe would work at that point.
And that is still an attack, something that tail explicitly cannot do.
Held charges are problematic issue, with the rules about not touching anything else without an unintended discharge. Exactly WHERE are you holding that charge ? Can you move the charge around after it's held ? If you had a held charge in a particular limb and missed your attack, the charge is still held, but can it be moved to another limb before making a second attempt ?These issues are not directly addressed in the rules. Clarify with your GM how it's going to work.
This is probably the relevant thing to consider. Even if you want to argue that nonhumanoid includes Outsider(Native), your tail isn't what passes for your hands.To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.You aren't nonhumanoid, so it must be in hand, not tail.
While I don't disagree with your point in general, you're viewing it from the perspective of someone who only had hands. There are people who have lost their hands and use their feet as hands. The Tieflings tail is coordinated enough to retrieve objects they have stowed away as a swift action. Think of how fast that is. That is a lot of coordination to not count as a hand.
I have a Tiefling Magus with the wand wielder arcana and have never run into any issues so I'm not quite sure what your concern is. You can very clearly use the wand with Spell Combat (that's basically what the arcana gives you). And you cannot use the wand with Spell Strike so there's really no reason why you need to activate the wand from the tail. What this means in mechanical terms is that basically your tail lets you retrieve the wand as a swift action; you can then full action Spell Combat using your wand and your regular attack. You could also do the same with a spring loaded wrist sheath, but then you would have only 2 wands to choose from - the wand wielder lets you have a whole library of wands at your disposal. It also means that you need to (free action) drop your wand after using it, but that doesn't really matter unless you end up having to run away.
Interestingly, there is a Tiefling feat that allows you to make even more use of your tail. Unfortunately, the GMs in my area mainly rule that it still can't be used to wield a rod. As a result, instead, I use the spell Aroden's Spellsword to put a rod (usually of Piercing metamagic) into my scimitar.
I have a Tiefling Magus with the wand wielder arcana and have never run into any issues so I'm not quite sure what your concern is. You can very clearly use the wand with Spell Combat (that's basically what the arcana gives you). And you cannot use the wand with Spell Strike so there's really no reason why you need to activate the wand from the tail. What this means in mechanical terms is that basically your tail lets you retrieve the wand as a swift action; you can then full action Spell Combat using your wand and your regular attack. You could also do the same with a spring loaded wrist sheath, but then you would have only 2 wands to choose from - the wand wielder lets you have a whole library of wands at your disposal. It also means that you need to (free action) drop your wand after using it, but that doesn't really matter unless you end up having to run away.
Interestingly, there is a Tiefling feat that allows you to make even more use of your tail. Unfortunately, the GMs in my area mainly rule that it still can't be used to wield a rod. As a result, instead, I use the spell Aroden's Spellsword to put a rod (usually of Piercing metamagic) into my scimitar.
Oh it matters because the offhand needs to be empty to cast naturally as well as using dex to damage feats.
While I don't disagree with your point in general, you're viewing it from the perspective of someone who only had hands. There are people who have lost their hands and use their feet as hands. The Tieflings tail is coordinated enough to retrieve objects they have stowed away as a swift action. Think of how fast that is. That is a lot of coordination to not count as a hand.This is probably the relevant thing to consider. Even if you want to argue that nonhumanoid includes Outsider(Native), your tail isn't what passes for your hands.To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.You aren't nonhumanoid, so it must be in hand, not tail.
And yet, if you get a dagger out of your backpack with your tail, you cannot make an attack with it. You have a hand, so the wand must be held in hand to activate it.
And yet, if you get a dagger out of your backpack with your tail, you cannot make an attack with it. You have a hand, so the wand must be held in hand to activate it.While I don't disagree with your point in general, you're viewing it from the perspective of someone who only had hands. There are people who have lost their hands and use their feet as hands. The Tieflings tail is coordinated enough to retrieve objects they have stowed away as a swift action. Think of how fast that is. That is a lot of coordination to not count as a hand.This is probably the relevant thing to consider. Even if you want to argue that nonhumanoid includes Outsider(Native), your tail isn't what passes for your hands.To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.You aren't nonhumanoid, so it must be in hand, not tail.
I'm not saying you're wrong about the hand thing. In fact, RAW I think you're right. But an inability to attack with a weapon held by your tail is completely beside the point.
I'm not saying you're wrong about the hand thing. In fact, RAW I think you're right. But an inability to attack with a weapon held by your tail is completely beside the point.
Because the tail lacks the text stating it can manipulate items as well as your original arms, you can't.
Compare prehensile tail with vestigal arm for alchemists.
Prehensile Tail Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.
Benefit: The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time).
The alchemist could hold a wand in his 3rd hand and activate it. The tiefling cannot use its tail to activate a wand.
As a GM, I would say go ahead, but it counts as a use of a "hand". I.e. you cannot two-hand-fight and tail-wand, but you can one-hand-fight & free hand & tail-wand.
Kind of like using a shield. You are wielding it but not making attacks and not using the same hand for other things.
/cevah