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(Why I'm asking this question)
Long story short, I found a way to use Sneak Attack dice on Improvised Weapons using Disarm combat manuevers and Catch Off Guard, as Unarmed opponents are Flatfooted because of this combination.
Part of this build needs me to be unarmed, so the opponent has to Disarm me to get his weapon back.
Unfortunately, I have to multiclass, and thus gain the proficiencies of other weapons.
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Are there ways to lose weapon proficiency? Or, at least treat a weapon as if you're not proficient with it?
I know of the Monk of the Empty Hand archetype, but because I multiclass, I gain such proficiencies anyway.
What came to my attention was that dealing non-leathal damage with a lethal weapon has the same -4 penalty as when using a non-proficient weapon. Thus, I would believe something like this is allowed.
Pretty sure I've seen rules about using a weapon the wrong way, like holding the wrong end, making it an improvised weapon. Not so sure I can find the text, but you can run the idea past your GM.
I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to do, but if your plan involves needing your opponent to disarm you to get their weapon back...
You should probably just assume that's not going to happen and change your concept.
I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to do, but if your plan involves needing your opponent to disarm you to get their weapon back...
Actually, I'm making sure the opponent can't get his weapon back. Also, any attempt to get it back means I AoO him.
But you're right. Best carry around an improv weapon rather than hope I can improvize theirs.
Thank you, all, for the input though.
Maybe there's some sort of amnesia spell to make you forget how to use a weapon?
As a matter of fact, there is!
Cast Puzzle Box on your weapon. If used on your weapon, the duration is permanent, and makes it so you are always non-proficient with just that one weapon, so you can minimize drawbacks.
Maybe there's some sort of amnesia spell to make you forget how to use a weapon?As a matter of fact, there is!
Cast Puzzle Box on your weapon. If used on your weapon, the duration is permanent, and makes it so you are always non-proficient with just that one weapon, so you can minimize drawbacks.
I believe the OP wants to be non-proficient with their opponent's weapons.
They can still cast it on themselves. Though I imagine at that point, the duration is much lower...
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So if I understand you correctly, you want to...
1) Disarm opponents with an unarmed attack, and take their weapon.
2) Consider the weapon you just nabbed to be improvised [somehow!]
3) Sneak attack opponents with improvised weapons, because Catch Off-Guard lets you consider people flat-footed if they're unarmed and you're wielding an improvised weapon.
#2 could be tricky. There are some ideas that you can wield a pole-arm as an improvised non-reach weapon, but I don't think there's a nice rule that works for all weapons in general.
A much simpler solution is to have one improvised weapon in one hand, and disarm your opponents with the other hand. That should always be an option.
Also, if your hands are getting full (because you disarmed your opponent but he drew another weapon, just drop his first weapon behind you;
Drop an Item
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.
He could try to step around you to get his weapon back, but:
Manipulate an Item
Moving or manipulating an item is usually a move action.
This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Actions in Combat.
And in that table, it lists "Pick up an item" as "Yes" - it provokes an AoO. So sure, your enemy gets his weapon back and can even still attack with it, but it cost him a Move, made him provoke, and end up moving to where you wanted him to go.
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Non-proficiency doesn't translate to being unarmed or using an improvised weapon, so it doesn't matter.
A Monk of the Empty Hand still treats normal weapons as improvised weapons even if he gains proficiency in the weapon.
Most normal weapons can also conceivably be used as an improvised weapon in a way other than intended, holding the wrong end, for instance, it would depend on the weapon and your GM. Proficiency doesn't help or prevent one from using weapons in this fashion.
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You could also go for Combat Scabbards, combined with the Equipment Trick: Heavy Blade Scabbard feat. If you also have Improved Disarm, you can use the Capture Weapon part of the feat, which allows you to sheath your opponents weapon in your scabbard as a free action if you disarm the opponent. Now the weapon has to fit into the scabbard, so use Great Sword scabbards or something. Then you could go for the [Break Guard feat, to attack as a swift whenever you succesfully disarm someone.
I had a Makeshift Scrapper Unchained Rogue that carried 6 Heavy Blade Scabbards on his back, combined with a Large Heavy Blade Scabbard on the middle of his back for larger weapon fits. It is true, as others have mentioned, that enemies that can still defend themselves without manufactured weapons (Improved Unarmed Strike, Natural Weapons), or has weapons that cannot be disarmed (Armor Spikes, Gauntlets, etc), this trick doesn't work. Make sure you have a back-up plan.
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And its worth remembering every humanoid with just about any medium/heavy armor also automatically has gauntlets.