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Ok my question is this. In the text describing natural attacks it says that natural attacks always treat as secondary attacks when combined with unarmed strikes or manufactured weapons, and take the -5. however it specifies that TwF and multiattack reduce these penalties.
"You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties."
However two weapon fighting makes no reference to it's interaction with natural attacks or how the penalties are reduced on them.
For the purpose I am assuming it functions like Multiattack (reducing the penalty to -2) however I have no idea if this is correct, or what the correct handling may be.
Two Weapon Fighting has no interaction with natural attacks, barring the usual -X to attacks (an additional -2 in the case of a character with TWF).
Two Weapon Fighting has no interaction with natural attacks, barring the usual -X to attacks (an additional -2 in the case of a character with TWF).
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways. First, if your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light. Second, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6.
Two weapon penalties specifically apply the penalty to attacks with your off hand. YOur natural weapons are unaffected (since you can't use the same hand twice anyway)
Lefthandpunch righthandpunch Bite is at -2 -2 -5.
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I think this was a throwback to an old errata:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/resources
Page 182—In the Attack section, in the Natural Attacks section, in the third paragraph, delete the following two sentences: “In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks.”
As this is no longer a part of an attack build then the TWF has less relevance (but as BNW points out it comes in with a big bag o attacks action)
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This thread is perfect timing.
I have a Tiefling with Claws (Maw or Claw tiefling Racial Trait replaces SLA), and Adopted to get the Tusked Trait (from OoG pg23)...
Tusked says it gives a Bite attack at -5 to the attack (as a secondary attack). I've THINK a full attack for this PC works like this...
2 Claw attacks at BAB + STR doing 1d4 plus STR
AND
1 Bite attack at BAB + STR - 5 doing 1d4 plus 1/2STR.
Does that sound right?
Is there any feat (or feats) I could take to improve the bite attack?
Thanks!
You actually found the *one* bite attack that's worded WEIRD.
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You actually found the *one* bite attack that's worded WEIRD.
Sorry! yeah - I seem to do that a lot.
The funny part of all this is that I'm trying to match the PC build to a figure that I like... so it doesn't really have to be all that effective, just there.
any suggestions to add some flavor to the bite attack?
I did pick up a Whet-bone from Animal Archive. (Plus one damage on the first attack that hits, and it is great RP flavor)
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Is there another way to get a Claw/Claw/Bite attack with a Tiefling?
You actually found the *one* bite attack that's worded WEIRD.
Yes, with class abilities, but that will work for any races. If I remember correctly, you can get claws, bite gore with rage powers. Feral mutagen gives you bite and claws. Natural attack ranger can give you claws too. Wolfscarred oracle with lunar mystery and gift and claw and horns.
Yes, with class abilities, but that will work for any races. If I remember correctly, you can get claws, bite gore with rage powers. Feral mutagen gives you bite and claws. Natural attack ranger can give you claws too. Wolfscarred oracle with lunar mystery and gift and claw and horns.Is there another way to get a Claw/Claw/Bite attack with a Tiefling?
You actually found the *one* bite attack that's worded WEIRD.
Class abilities, items. I got my dragon disciple up to bite, claw, claw, gore, talon, talon, tail sting. There are probably even more attacks possible out there.
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but... at 1st level? What ways can a PC have Claw/Claw/Bite at 1st level (or maybe 2nd)?
Feral mutagen gives you bite and claws, but only after 2nd level and only for a short period (10min per level), right? So I should be able to pick that up when I level to 2nd (Alchemist) - how would that modify my existing bite (or claws)?
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but... at 1st level? What ways can a PC have Claw/Claw/Bite at 1st level (or maybe 2nd)?
Feral mutagen gives you bite and claws, but only after 2nd level and only for a short period (10min per level), right? So I should be able to pick that up when I level to 2nd (Alchemist) - how would that modify my existing bite (or claws)?
Lunar Oracles can take the "Gift of Claw and Horn" revelation which gives you your choice of claw, bite, or gore at 1st level, and then a second one at 11th level. So if you already have claws, you can claw claw bite at 1st. (And then take extra revelation to get a full strength Animal Companion, for even more natural attacks.)
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The easy way to have claw claw bite at first level is to play a tengu.
Other ways are metamorph alchemist to alter self into a lizardman or troglodyte, witch with the nails hex and a natural bite attack, or several skinwlker races.
where's metamorph alchemist from? Beastmorph I know... but not metamorph.
A ragebred skinwalker could pick up hoof/hoof/gore if they begin with the Extra Feature feat. You could pick up claw/claw/bite with a coldborn, fanglord, or witchwolf instead. They could also feasibly pick up claw/claw/bite from rage powers, making a rageborn incredible as a berserker (though I would assume that's not fitting with your theme). Wereboars could also be decent draconic bloodline sorcs/bloodragers too, since draconic grants claw/claw, meaning you've got five attacks by 1st.
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where's metamorph alchemist from? Beastmorph I know... but not metamorph.The easy way to have claw claw bite at first level is to play a tengu.
Other ways are metamorph alchemist to alter self into a lizardman or troglodyte, witch with the nails hex and a natural bite attack, or several skinwlker races.
Ultimate Intrigue. I love it as a martial shapeshifter. It keeps mutagen and gains alter self/monstrous physique/giant form as wild shape. But in exchange it looses bombs and all alchemy. Some people think it gives up too much, but it's able to boost Str better than any other class.