Greetings! I've been thinking about the classic sword and board fighter lately. Someone who chops with his sword (or other 1h weapon) and then smashes you with his shield. Or smashes you with his shield and then choppy with the sword!
I stumble across some ideas and other posts and started to work with the following:
STR 17
DEX 16
CON 15
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 7
The recommended Str was 17 and a Dex of 19 by endgame, however, looking at the feat selections - 17 is the highest Dex that would be needed for feat requirements. So not sure why that is.
The feat selections are as follows:
1st level - Improved Shield Bash
Two Weapon Fighting
Double SliceAt first level you can do a full attack with both weapons (Light shield is good, spiked light if you like piercing), full str on both attacks, and keep the defensive bonus from the shield.
levels 2-5
Shield Focus
Missile Shield
Weapon Focus Sword/axe/whatever
Weapon Specialization Sword/axe/whateverTake the close weapons group from weapon training, where you find light shield, for extra bonuses.
6-10
Shield Slam
Disruptive
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus Shield
Spellbreaker11-13
Shield Master (11th)
Ray Shield
Two Weapon RendEnd game right here. Deflect ray attacks, use any magical enhancement on your shield, and if you hit with both weapons, you rend! Awesome!
As far as weapons go, anything that can be made keen (scimitar, Bastard sword if you wanna take exotic prof etc) are your friends.
Looking at the feats, it seems to accomplish what I was thinking of. I'm curious what others think. I have heard many times people say that Paizo seems to give martial characters the raw end of the deal as the levels progress.
With PFS capping out at 11th are they still solid?I believe I've read that ranger can pick shield mastery sooner (level 6?) is that a better route?
The lack of skills sucks on a fighter and sometimes it's nice to be more than a bad guy smasher. I looked briefly at Lore Warden, but it loses too many of the nice pieces that vanilla fighter brings to the table (proficencies being key).
Well thanks in advance for your input!
You would eventually need 19 DEX for greater TWF. However I'm in the school of thought that greater TWF is pointless (one thing to get a -10 penalty for regular BAB progression, but another to spend a feat on it), when you should probably plan on getting Two Weapon Rend.
Considered Lore Warden with some sort of Barbarian dip? Who knows, could be handy and gives a nice bonus. Lack of Heavy armor isn't as big a deal with a good DEX.
I don't like Ranger too much as skipping prereqs means you may not be able to spend regular feats on TWF. Can be pulled off but definitely takes some planning. Here it could work if you still just leave the stats as is.
I recommend heavy shield with a good crit light weapon. It's also tempting to just grab a Sawtooth Sabre.
I'm not sure I would recommend disruptive. Pretty easy for a spellcaster to just run away.
A lot of people may say you should go Dex-based, but you're good as is with the stats.
Edit: Sawtooth Sabres are pretty much just long swords that count as light weapons for TWF. If you hold them downwards like a praying mantis you'll probably earn serious street cred with Red Mantis Assassins. If you hold them upwards, they'll hunt you down and kill you.
You would eventually need 19 DEX for greater TWF. However I'm in the school of thought that greater TWF is pointless (one thing to get a -10 penalty for regular BAB progression, but another to spend a feat on it), when you should probably plan on getting Two Weapon Rend.
Considered Lore Warden with some sort of Barbarian dip? Who knows, could be handy and gives a nice bonus. Lack of Heavy armor isn't as big a deal with a good DEX.
I don't like Ranger too much as skipping prereqs means you may not be able to spend regular feats on TWF. Can be pulled off but definitely takes some planning. Here it could work if you still just leave the stats as is.
I recommend heavy shield with a good crit light weapon. It's also tempting to just grab a Sawtooth Sabre.
I'm not sure I would recommend disruptive. Pretty easy for a spellcaster to just run away.
A lot of people may say you should go Dex-based, but you're good as is with the stats.
Edit: Sawtooth Sabres are pretty much just long swords that count as light weapons for TWF. If you hold them downwards like a praying mantis you'll probably earn serious street cred with Red Mantis Assassins. If you hold them upwards, they'll hunt you down and kill you.
Greater twf would only be achievable at a higher level, correct? Which is pointless in PFS then. Also a -10 to hit is ridiculous.
I'll take a look at spiked heavy shield and then light crit weapon. Is it worth investing in improved crit then?
If I'm not going after Greater TWF then I can put one more point in dex and then the rest in str, correct? If I recall correctly some of the feats will need 17 dex
Two weapon Rend > Greater TWF.
Shield slam, Shield Master, Bashing Finish
I'm more a fan of Slayer or Ranger for the Sword and Board builds.
Bashing finish is nice! But may be tough to get in a PFS game with the BAB of +11.
You would eventually need 19 DEX for greater TWF. However I'm in the school of thought that greater TWF is pointless (one thing to get a -10 penalty for regular BAB progression, but another to spend a feat on it), when you should probably plan on getting Two Weapon Rend.
Considered Lore Warden with some sort of Barbarian dip? Who knows, could be handy and gives a nice bonus. Lack of Heavy armor isn't as big a deal with a good DEX.
I don't like Ranger too much as skipping prereqs means you may not be able to spend regular feats on TWF. Can be pulled off but definitely takes some planning. Here it could work if you still just leave the stats as is.
I recommend heavy shield with a good crit light weapon. It's also tempting to just grab a Sawtooth Sabre.
I'm not sure I would recommend disruptive. Pretty easy for a spellcaster to just run away.
A lot of people may say you should go Dex-based, but you're good as is with the stats.
Edit: Sawtooth Sabres are pretty much just long swords that count as light weapons for TWF. If you hold them downwards like a praying mantis you'll probably earn serious street cred with Red Mantis Assassins. If you hold them upwards, they'll hunt you down and kill you.
Greater twf would only be achievable at a higher level, correct? Which is pointless in PFS then. Also a -10 to hit is ridiculous.
I'll take a look at spiked heavy shield and then light crit weapon. Is it worth investing in improved crit then?
If I'm not going after Greater TWF then I can put one more point in dex and then the rest in str, correct? If I recall correctly some of the feats will need 17 dex
I'd just grab a keen weapon. For the stats, 1 point or 2 nets you the same bonus so I would put one in STR, one in DEX, and then one in CON.
If you gave up two-weapon rend you could get greater TWF, but that's a pretty big tradeoff and not worth it.
Greater twf doesn't interest me. TW rend is intriguing.
Would you do str, Dex and then con in that order?
Greater twf doesn't interest me. TW rend is intriguing.
Would you do str, Dex and then con in that order?
Yes to the stats. Given the choice between 1d10 damage automatically or a small chance for the same thing TWR all the way.
Sawtoothed Saber requires exotic weapon proficiency to use as a light weapon and is considered as a longsword so 1d8dmg.
If you spend that feat you would have:
Heavy spiked shield 1d6, sawtoothed 1d8 +3 on each of those averaging around 14 dmg if both hit.
Heavy spiked shield 1d6+3, shortsword/gladius 1d6+3 = 13dmg
light spiked shield 1d4+3, longsword 1d8+3 = 13dmg
So if I have done my math right it's not really worth spending the extra feat and instead go with heavy shield and short sword/galius or something else 1d6.
Another idea to consider is skipping the TWF route and taking a 2-level dip into Brawler instead. That would let you do a flurry of blows with monk weapons (which includes some good one-handed weapons), so you wouldn't be splitting your Weapon Focus and weapon enchantments between two weapons. Plus Martial Flexibility, free IUS, and a boost to Reflex saves.
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Bashing finish is nice! But may be tough to get in a PFS game with the BAB of +11.Two weapon Rend > Greater TWF.
Shield slam, Shield Master, Bashing Finish
I'm more a fan of Slayer or Ranger for the Sword and Board builds.
Well you get a Feat At level 11...so you qualify at 11. If you ever get to a special event there are some things that can take you over level 12.
These reasons are why I like the Slayer/Ranger Sword and Board...Bashing Finish at level 10. Shield master at Level 6, and Shield Slam Level 2. Levels earlier than the other classes. Only Issue is Medium armor. Which I do not find that big of a deal. I have reached some good AC in only Medium armor. Your going to need a Decent Dex to start with anyways so Medium armor allows you to use that Dex for AC as well where Heavy Armor will Cap your Dex at +1 to AC. Also the Ranger/Slayer has a lot more skills, and if your Ranger, Spells like Barkskin, instant Enemy...Ability to use 1st level wands of Cure Light Wounds, Longstrider, Feather Step.
Bashing finish is nice! But may be tough to get in a PFS game with the BAB of +11.Two weapon Rend > Greater TWF.
Shield slam, Shield Master, Bashing Finish
I'm more a fan of Slayer or Ranger for the Sword and Board builds.
Well you get a Feat At level 11...so you qualify at 11. If you ever get to a special event there are some things that can take you over level 12.
These reasons are why I like the Slayer/Ranger Sword and Board...Bashing Finish at level 10. Shield master at Level 6, and Shield Slam Level 2. Levels earlier than the other classes. Only Issue is Medium armor. Which I do not find that big of a deal. I have reached some good AC in only Medium armor. Your going to need a Decent Dex to start with anyways so Medium armor allows you to use that Dex for AC as well where Heavy Armor will Cap your Dex at +1 to AC. Also the Ranger/Slayer has a lot more skills, and if your Ranger, Spells like Barkskin, instant Enemy...Ability to use 1st level wands of Cure Light Wounds, Longstrider, Feather Step.
color me intrigued...what's your initial stat build on a human for this (20 pt buy PFS)?
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color me intrigued...what's your initial stat build on a human for this (20 pt buy PFS)?Bashing finish is nice! But may be tough to get in a PFS game with the BAB of +11.Two weapon Rend > Greater TWF.
Shield slam, Shield Master, Bashing Finish
I'm more a fan of Slayer or Ranger for the Sword and Board builds.
Well you get a Feat At level 11...so you qualify at 11. If you ever get to a special event there are some things that can take you over level 12.
These reasons are why I like the Slayer/Ranger Sword and Board...Bashing Finish at level 10. Shield master at Level 6, and Shield Slam Level 2. Levels earlier than the other classes. Only Issue is Medium armor. Which I do not find that big of a deal. I have reached some good AC in only Medium armor. Your going to need a Decent Dex to start with anyways so Medium armor allows you to use that Dex for AC as well where Heavy Armor will Cap your Dex at +1 to AC. Also the Ranger/Slayer has a lot more skills, and if your Ranger, Spells like Barkskin, instant Enemy...Ability to use 1st level wands of Cure Light Wounds, Longstrider, Feather Step.
I personally would go Ranger (for the Spell access) But Slayer works as well. They are pretty even in the Skills department.
Usually-
Str: 17, Dex: 15, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 12, Cha: 9Traits: Magical Knack Ranger
(Open Trait)This Allows you to take:
1: TWF, Improved Shield Bash
2: Shield Slam
3: Power Attack
5: Double Slice
6: Shield Master
7: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9: (Find what you Like) Improved Critical Scimitar (Proc's Bashing Finish more often and good increase in DPR. Pair with Oil of Bless weapon for Auto Confirmed Criticals for 50gp, at this point it is chump change since your going to buying thrifty like.)
10: Bashing Finish
11: Two Weapon RendI would Aim for the +2 Belt of Incredible Dex first and at 4 Increase STR with your Level up. This makes your Able to take Improved TWF at 7. At 8 Level up your Dex. Now your have a +4 Dex modifier and a Mithral Breastplate to make use of the Dex modifier as well as saving money on the Full plate version and not getting full Dex modifier to AC.
Spells for a Wand:
Cure Light Wounds- Be your own healer
Longstrider- Better movement in your Armor
Feather Step- Ignore Difficult terrain.Spells good to cast:
Lead Blade- increase the Damage of BOTH Shield and Scimitar (Or High critical weapon)
Resist Energy- Layered Defenses are best Defenses
Barkskin- Why buy a Necklace of Natural armor? Extend rod 3k+Barkskin= Gold Efficiency. Save that necklace for something Like Swarmbane Clasp.
Windwall/Fickle Winds- Is this Archer Serious? Clearly not without a Cyclonic Bow.
Life Bubble- Extend Rod + Life Bubble= Layer Defense and Cloud-kill immunity, Yes please...Cast every night and have it up ALL day.
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also, rangers have 6 skills per levels and a decent animal companion (1 feat = a full animal). adding a STR 24 wolf that share your favorite enemies isnt bad.
Yes put off Double slice to 9 take boon companion at 5 instead. Or you can ignore it and just have a fancy mount lol...camels have a spit attack which is hilarious.
They also share your Favored Terrain as well. I actually like the ability myself. In PFS urban and Underground come up a lot. Good little skill boosts always are handy.
I do like the extra skill ranks thats for sure. I'll have to have a look at this build.
Is Vigilante PFS legal? They have a talent that makes for an amazing sword and board user.
Which talent is that?
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I have a sword-and-board fighter in PFS and he does okay. He doesn't do that much damage compares to a barbarian two-handing a great axe, but he's more utility/tank
While TWF is fun, in Pathfinder it just can't compare, damage or accuracy wise, to a two-handed fighter with power attack. As such, you 1)might want to focus more on utility things and 2) have to get your damage from somewhere else.
I have a slayer, which nets me trapfinder/trap spotter with a couple feats, and shield master at level 6 through the ranger combat style. He's not perfect, I admit, but he's tanky enough to be in front, can find traps while up there, and if he flanks, his 4 snak attacks (five if he gets hasted) can start to add up.
Here are his stats: http://paizo.com/people/Kravenoff
Which talent is that?
Shield of Fury. Free Improved Shield Bash from the get go, free prereq ignoring TWF and the ability to ignore Dex prereqs on follow up feats to TWF at 6th level.