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So I'm playing in a Rise of the Runelords campaign and I'm level 6. Fighter4/trapper Ranger2. We all have ridiculous stats due to the way we generated characters so my scores are Str19 Dex17 Con12 Int14 Wis15 Cha13. I'm sort of a trip build with Greater Trip, Combat Reflexes, Paired Opportunists, and Felling Smash (plus others but not as relevant) a couple other party members have paired opportunists and the other fighter has Vicious Stomp so we can capitalize on AoO madness.
I've recently started thinking we would be well off with more spell casting ability, No retraining allowed so I'm stuck with what I've done so far, and he's pretty fun as it is, but I can't help thinking that going Magus might be viable with him. True Strike for when we really need a trip to go off would be pretty nice, and with the magus arcana that uses your level for your CMB instead of your actual CMB would keep me working as normal once I can take it.
The question is if the spell casting is worth loosing out on weapon training and further armor training. Buying magic items hasn't been possible in this campaign so far and I expect that will not change, so we make due with what we find. I would have to give up on using a two handed reach weapon when I want to do spell combat, and give up my magic breastplate for now or deal with arcane spell failure chance. I still kind of think the spell casting might be worth it. We only use the Core rulebook, APG, Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic books, so all splat books material is out of consideration. Should I stick with the classes I have or start my magic training?
What type of spellcasting do you need? Not all spellcasting is the same.
Do you want blasting, utility, battlefield control etc etc?
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Mostly utility, and buffing. The occasional no save damage dealer like shocking grasp, and true strike to ensure that an important trip happens. I realize that my DCs will be garbage, and getting through spell resistance with a lower caster level will be a long shot, especially since I won't have the feats to take things like Spell Penetration.
I have not looked at the magus in a long time, but outside of haste I don't know how much buffing it can for the party. I know it is short on utility. A bard seems better to me in this regard. You can cast your spells in light armor armor, and you get actual utility based spells, and the performances also help. It is a lot better at what you want than the magus, even if it might not have true strike.
With shocking grasp depending on caster level I would avoid it, plus it is evocation which means SR cancels it out. Your attack bonus should still be high enough to use power attack if you have it.
Book 2 or 3 puts you in a major city so you should be able to buy magic items, unless the GM is just saying no. Even if you spend 8 hours adventuring you still have 8 hours to do things, after the 8 hours of rest accounted for.
I just found out Shadow Walk does not work like I thought it did, so maybe UMD'ing something like teleport might work.
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Well, the Magus is not a buffer, but it has excellent utility. In fact, its utility is second only to the wizard/sorcerer/arcanist himself. So that's a good match.
Of course, with a dip you won't have a lot of spells per day, so you may need scrolls for that.
A bard seems better to me in this regard. You can cast your spells in light armor armor
Magus can also cast in light armor. Also in heavy armor, with sufficient levels or archetypes.
Magus will be very weak with that many levels lost. When you are a magus, you pretty much want to be all magus all the time
Well, for a Magus, a dip into fighter or ranger is not so hot. But on the contrary, if you're a fighter or ranger, a dip into Magus is a good choice. Even if you only add a spell to your full attack a couple times per day, that's still a good action advantage.
Well, the Magus is not a buffer, but it has excellent utility. In fact, its utility is second only to the wizard/sorcerer/arcanist himself. So that's a good match.
I meant utility to solve party problems. If the magus has this more than the bard I may need to look at the spell list again.
I think low level bards really feel the lack of action economy while the magus' spell combat is very useful in this regard. Also lots of options for free action arcana with a magus once you get a few levels down.
Eldritch Knight after a few levels in your casting class would seem to be the ticket to resolving the lost time.
Though if you go the bard route, I'd look at skald, personally.
I'm in the "all magus, all the time" camp as well. I even tried doing a 1-level dip into fighter to enable an aldori dueling sword exotic weapon proficiency and I wound up feeling underpowered. I'd re-train in this case.
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I meant utility to solve party problems. If the magus has this more than the bard I may need to look at the spell list again.
Maybe you should :)
For example, among first-level utilities that the Magus gets and the Bard does not, there's such spells as Obscuring Mist, Monkey Fish, Enlarge/Reduce, Floating Disk, and Mount. Any spells in particular that you're looking for?
For one-or-two-level pick-up-a-few-spells dipping, there's also the warlock vigilante - you get the number of spells of a magus, but can pick from the entire sorcerer/wizard spell list. (As well as picking from some neat social talents, and vigilante talents if you go two levels. Tattoo Chamber is a particularly neat one.)
How about Warpriest? They are excellent self-buffers, being able to do it as a swift action, and you can keep your breastplate. Your Wis is slightly better, too. Not sure how they are for utility; you'd have to check that out.
I meant utility to solve party problems. If the magus has this more than the bard I may need to look at the spell list again.Maybe you should :)
For example, among first-level utilities that the Magus gets and the Bard does not, there's such spells as Obscuring Mist, Monkey Fish, Enlarge/Reduce, Floating Disk, and Mount. Any spells in particular that you're looking for?
I didn't know they got obscuring mist. I thought mount was a one person spell, but I guess he could cast it several times.
I will look the magus list over later. It might make my "want to play" list. :)
For one-or-two-level pick-up-a-few-spells dipping, there's also the warlock vigilante - you get the number of spells of a magus, but can pick from the entire sorcerer/wizard spell list. (As well as picking from some neat social talents, and vigilante talents if you go two levels. Tattoo Chamber is a particularly neat one.)
There is also the Eldritch Scoundrel rogue archetype.
Magus spell progression with the full wizard spell list.
You give up sneak attack and won't likely get any talents, but it has a diverse skill list and is good with magical traps.
How about Spell Warrior skald? Or maybe Dragon skald?
I'd rather stick to what I do well instead of trying to do several things mediocre.
When looking at buffs, I check what a class can offer to the group and to how many of them. Invisibility, see invisibility, anything granting to hit bonuses or haste is good. I couldn't care less for mount or obscuring mist, though...I know mist is liked by many, but in practice it was often a hindrance instead of help (and the enemy does seldom cooperate). Now, a spell that sees through fog on the other hand...
And yes, spell resistance can be a thing. Our pally does not even try to get through it, and it is often enough a gamble for full casters (and I have spell penetration myself). So if you have to get through it to make your magic work, you wont be happy around level 12.
Fighters have less flavor than the semi-casters, but their passive bonuses count every time, while the (limited) spells do not.
Or for something completely different: maybe Blade Adept Arcanist.
Might be crazy, might not be.
2 levels of inquisitor.
You get divine spells that you don't need to prepare and can cast in armor.
You get litany of defense (swift action, double armor enchantment bonuses!) (lvl2)
You get invisibility (lvl2)
You get your wis modifier added to your initiative
You get judgements (or studied target)
You get a lot more skills
You get lvl1 and lvl0 spells which can be useful
And finally you get an inquisition. I'd take persistence.
This gives you step up as a bonus feat and it lets you add +10ft to your move as a swift action 5 times per day.
That's more than enough to give you a 40ft movement whenever needed with a nice feat for free.
How about going psychic? Or Druid? Both are versatile classes.
I think you can make a really strong argument for at least a 1 level dip. As you noted, true strike and spell combat is great for the build you have going. In addition that one dip will let you use all of the level 1-4 magus wands (albeit not with spell combat yet) which gives you quite a bit of flexibility. You can also pretty reliably use low level scrolls. If lack of access to magic items also includes lack of access to consumable magic (not just this may be less useful. The loss of one BAB is made up for by being able to use your arcane pool to enhance your weapon.
After that, the trade becomes more questionable. Spellstrike probably isn't going to be big on your list, so 2nd level doesn't gain much. Arcana are nice, but probably not necessary.
The big thing you will get as you go up in Magus is access to more spells and more spells per day. In a normal campaign I'd say being six levels behind means these are going to be of marginal utility to you, but if lack of access to magic items is extreme enough, then any magic can be a huge game changer, and I'd say go for magic if you can get it. With your stats and build, I would agree that Magus is the best choice between getting a fair amount of useful magic and not crippling your BAB too much.
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Thanks for all the input. I'm still undecided, but likely going to just stick to fighter levels. I'm already a couple behind because of the Ranger levels I picked up for the trapper archtype so we could get someone with trapfinding. It's probably a bad idea to change out class so deep into the game.
If I do go with magus, I would stick to that from then on. I would need at least 5 levels so that I could pick up craft wand, and ensure that I always have a lot of true strike capability. I was also really attracted to the versatility it would give me in weapons. Our attacks of opportunity will get scaled back quite a bit when we run into something that can't be tripped, so we were going to pick up the feat Sieze the Moment later on, for AoOs when someone crits. Being able to make any weapon I want keen through the arcane pool ability (past 5th level) seemed like a great fit with that in mind too.
There's always retraining all your class levels. It worked for Queen Galfrey, who retrained from aristocrat to paladin.