dual wielding shields and fighting defensively


Rules Questions


According to the feat Shield Master, it negates any attack roll penalty made with a shield while wielding another weapon. A shield itself can count as a weapon, so if I read this right I can dual wield shields and ignore the normal attack rolls penalty.

This brought several other interesting possibilities to mine. Power attacking without shield penalties, combat expertise, fight defense, etc.

Anything I am missing?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-master-combat---final


Shield Master wrote:
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield’s enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with the shield as if it were a weapon enhancement bonus.

People generally restrict it to Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties, since those are the only penalties you'd suffer when wielding another weapon.


shield bonuses do not stack so there is no benefit for using 2


Per the feat description, it would work that way, but Shield Master isn't intended to negate all penalties, only the TWF penalty in relation to your shield attacks according to the table entry on the PRD.

vhok wrote:
shield bonuses do not stack so there is no benefit for using 2

Negating TWF penalties altogether is most certainly a valued and coveted benefit for using 2 shields instead of just 1.

Not to mention, applying the AC Enhancement Bonus from both shields (yes, they won't stack for determining your own AC) to the attack and damage rolls of both saves you a lot of money.


vhok wrote:
shield bonuses do not stack so there is no benefit for using 2

Negating two weapon fighting penalties is pretty strong. So is being able to fight defensively without penalty.

Additionally, you get to use the AC enhancement bonus for attack and shield enhancement bonuses are way cheaper than weapon enhancement bonuses.


you do not use ac enchament bonus for defense for a shields offense. you have to enchant it separately for offense.


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vhok wrote:
you do not use ac enchament bonus for defense for a shields offense. you have to enchant it separately for offense.

feat in question expressly states you do, it's useful to look at the feat in question when commenting on it's function, especially easy when the link to it is provided.


The feat allows for the user to get an attack bonus from the shield.


It's also beneficial to use two shields for the purpose of feats like weapon focus/ specialization. This is why a fighter in my group uses two light weapons, he didn't want to use twice the feats.


I was thinking about the ridiculousness of fighting with two shields, but then....two klars would actually be pretty cool.

Horned Skulls strapped to your arms. So you still punch and block as though unarmed, but you have these bone/metal things around them.

Other than that (or some other reasonable fluff I can't think of), I think I'd just have to give a blank stare to a player wanting to dual shield it up.

Remember, too, heavy/light shields are in the close weapons fighter group, so you could go the Outslug route.

If you connect with four hits (with Lunge and your 10 ft. step), you could damage an opponent while moving him 20 ft as you please.

Like, off a cliff (or some other dramatic environmental danger).

Rules-wise, it seems extremely likely the RAI is that it only negates the penalties of two-weapon fighting.

Negating Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Fighting Defensively with a BAB of +20 is basically this feat also giving you a free +16 to hit with your attacks. +18 total, cause two-weapon fighting. If that was intended, then that's silly.

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Mechanical Pear wrote:

Rules-wise, it seems extremely likely the RAI is that it only negates the penalties of two-weapon fighting.

Negating Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Fighting Defensively with a BAB of +20 is basically this feat also giving you a free +16 to hit with your attacks. +18 total, cause two-weapon fighting. If that was intended, then that's silly.

It only negates TWF penaltitles.


RAW it does what you say, nice find, but expect GMs to apply RAI


I play a dwarf who uses two bucklers for my weapons. Flavor wise it can be very fun. I use upsetting shield style feat to allow it. Then with shield master it is great. Using that allows you to keep hands free and still be dangerous.

Background wise my character is a -Slag dwarf meaning he has been cast out of his tribe due to being mind controlled by a demon during the worldwound crusades. He turned and killed his dwarven ally. So in shame he has vowed to never pick up a weapon again and only uses his fists or his bucklers.

Liberty's Edge

If you look at the feats table in the CRB it says;

"No two-weapon penalties when attacking with a shield"

This should leave little doubt as to the intent of the 'no attack roll penalties' wording in the feat description.

As to benefits of fighting with two shields, in addition to those already listed, you can have different armor (and/or weapon) special abilities on each shield. With Shield Master (and it's Improved Shield Bash pre-req) you could have;

+5 armor enhancement bonus shield / +1 weapon enhancement bonus plus various special abilities
+5 weapon enhancement bonus shield / +1 armor enhancement bonus plus various special abilities

...and effectively have +5 to defence AND +5 to attack with both shields while also getting weapon & armor special abilities at low cost because they're only building off a +1 enhancement.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

D@rK-SePHiRoTH- wrote:
RAW it does what you say, nice find, but expect GMs to apply RAI

RAW it does what the GM says it does, RAI does or does not factor into it. Plus this isn't a find, this a horse that's been being beaten while dead for years.

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