| 21 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The question is as follows:
How does the arcane bond item's ability to cast 1 spell per day from your spellbook or known spells work when the character is a divine caster with no spellbook or spells known, but access to all spells from the class spell list?
Please FAQ Request this so we can get an official answer. There are numerous suggestions and arguments on the board on how to resolve this, but no consensus.
FAQ'd
DR is correct. I somehow missed it, but the devs don't like it.
Fixed it, I had no idea. Thanks!
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This has implications beyond the original scenario (taking a bonded object as an arcane bond from the ability grabted by Eldrith Heritage). The Ecclesitheurge Cleric archetype specifically grants a bonded object (the functions in all ways like a wizard's bonded object) in exchange for the 3rd level channel increase.
This means Concentration checks when without the holy symbol. Sure, you can enchant it, but I had always assumed it gave you one flexible spell like the wizard's bonded object.
So, FAQ'd
The question is as follows:
How does the arcane bond item's ability to cast 1 spell per day from your spellbook or known spells work when the character is a divine caster with no spellbook or spells known, but access to all spells from the class spell list?
Please FAQ Request this so we can get an official answer. There are numerous suggestions and arguments on the board on how to resolve this, but no consensus.
How would you have an arcane bond ability as a divine caster with no arcane caster levels?
How would you have an arcane bond ability as a divine caster with no arcane caster levels?The question is as follows:
How does the arcane bond item's ability to cast 1 spell per day from your spellbook or known spells work when the character is a divine caster with no spellbook or spells known, but access to all spells from the class spell list?
Please FAQ Request this so we can get an official answer. There are numerous suggestions and arguments on the board on how to resolve this, but no consensus.
From another post he says the Shaman has a way to get it.
Eldritch heritage I think.
Java Man is correct. Eldritch Heritage gives you access to the arcane bloodline 1st level ability, which is an Arcane Bond. You have the choice of familiar or object.
Also Ecclesitheurge Cleric archetype... in the post right above your question.
Java Man is correct. Eldritch Heritage gives you access to the arcane bloodline 1st level ability, which is an Arcane Bond. You have the choice of familiar or object.
If for some reason you choose the arcane bond ability, the ability you get with it is limited to enchanting it as if you had the appropriate magic item creation feat. You don't get the ability to recall spells you don't possess.
Note: Arcane Anthology introduced spellbooks for spontaneous and/or non-arcane casters... so technically any caster can have a spellbook.
I'm not familiar with every single book Paizo has put out. Core rules... my statement stands. In order to get anything other than what I've stated, a character has to have the spellbook class feature, and that book has to have spells that he could prepare and cast normally.
If Arcane anthology allows him to fulfill that requirement wihout being an arcane spellcaster, fine.
Java Man is correct. Eldritch Heritage gives you access to the arcane bloodline 1st level ability, which is an Arcane Bond. You have the choice of familiar or object.If for some reason you choose the arcane bond ability, the ability you get with it is limited to enchanting it as if you had the appropriate magic item creation feat. You don't get the ability to recall spells you don't possess.
The feat gives the Sorcerer version.
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known (unlike a wizard’s bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook). This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item.
...my statement stands. In order to get anything other than what I've stated, a character has to have the spellbook class feature, and that book has to have spells that he could prepare and cast normally.
Specifically incorrect in regards to Eldritch Heritage (see above).
Java Man is correct. Eldritch Heritage gives you access to the arcane bloodline 1st level ability, which is an Arcane Bond. You have the choice of familiar or object.If for some reason you choose the arcane bond ability, the ability you get with it is limited to enchanting it as if you had the appropriate magic item creation feat. You don't get the ability to recall spells you don't possess.The feat gives the Sorcerer version.
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known (unlike a wizard’s bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook). This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item.
But unless you are a sorcerer, you don't have any spells "known". Your divine spells do not count for this purpose, as they are not "known spells" but "granted spells".
When the sorcerer's ability says "your spells" it is referring to that sorcerer class. However it is more than likely that the PDT would allow it work for the divine class, but until it is FAQ's it is difficult to be 100% sure.
But unless you are a sorcerer, you don't have any spells "known". Your divine spells do not count for this purpose, as they are not "known spells" but "granted spells".
You stated that one needed a spellbook in order to use Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) Bonded Object choice of the bloodline. That is incorrect.
"Unless you are a sorcerer" is also incorrect. Off the top of my head:
Bard (arcane)
Oracle (divine)
Inquisitor (divine)
Hunter (divine)
Bloodrager (arcane or divine depending on archetype)
Skald (arcane)
Mesmer (psychic or divine depending on archetype)
Spiritualist (psychic)
Occultist (psychic or divine depending on archetype)
EDIT: I agree a FAQ is needed for prepared casters who have access to every spell on their list.
Note: Arcane Anthology introduced spellbooks for spontaneous and/or non-arcane casters... so technically any caster can have a spellbook.
Not really. The section "Prayer Book and Meditation Book Rituals" talks about how other classes can benefit from the Preparation Rituals that were described for Spellbooks in Ultimate Magic. It doesn't in any way alter how the classes prepare spells or recover spell slots.
Re: Ecclesitheurge: This might not be the best example to use, because the archetype's ability is one of several changes made to the Cleric class.. including the loss of all Armor and Shield proficiencies. The specific ability also has some alterations limiting what enchantments can be added to the holy symbol.
Opinion: In the end, the response may be exactly what Drahliana Moonrunner originally responded with: you have no spells that it affects. This may be for reasons of balance, to not make the Arcane Bloodline a "too good" choice for non-Sorcerers (although many take the same Feat for the Familiar, so this may already be a moot point).
|
Note: Arcane Anthology introduced spellbooks for spontaneous and/or non-arcane casters... so technically any caster can have a spellbook.Not really. The section "Prayer Book and Meditation Book Rituals" talks about how other classes can benefit from the Preparation Rituals that were described for Spellbooks in Ultimate Magic. It doesn't in any way alter how the classes prepare spells or recover spell slots.
Prayer books contain divine spells, following the same rules as arcane spellbooks, and to gain the benefits of those preparation rituals the divine caster must prepare their spells with the book. That's a change in how they prepare spells... and even if it weren't, they have a book... with spells in it. Thus, it could be argued that the Arcane Bond ability to cast one spell from a spellbook per day could be satisfied.
Re: Ecclesitheurge: This might not be the best example to use, because the archetype's ability is one of several changes made to the Cleric class.. including the loss of all Armor and Shield proficiencies. The specific ability also has some alterations limiting what enchantments can be added to the holy symbol.
It's not an example, it's a class feature in need of clarification given this debate.
However, all the things traded for it (and the theme of the archetype) weigh towards it giving a free floating spell ("man, I wish I had X spell right now"). It's how it has been used in the past, so hopefully we don't accidentally nerf it to uselessness. A bonded object that cost class features and imposes a Concentration check on spell casting if it's lost/sundered/stolen in exchange for a limited version of Craft Wondrous Item for one item only/ever is not a good trade.