What are the best ways to get one shot kills, barring save or die spells, or your typical high str greatsword wielder at low levels. I know there are dastardly finish and merciless butcher along with the death attack ninja and slayer talents, but what else am I missing? Is there a good way to do this before 9th level?
Be a Vital Striking Hippo.
16d8 at level 8, baby.
you need to retrain a feat to vital strike, but it is so worth it
Snowblind wrote: Be a Vital Striking Hippo.
16d8 at level 8, baby.
you need to retrain a feat to vital strike, but it is so worth it
I was kind of wanting to avoid the wild shape into something crazy and abuse improved natural attack and vital strike route, but thanks.
And Throat Slicer. And for the full build, immediate Snapping Turtle Clutch, move Greater Grapple pin, then slice their throat for a one round (ish) kill.
Bob Bob Bob wrote: And Throat Slicer. And for the full build, immediate Snapping Turtle Clutch, move Greater Grapple pin, then slice their throat for a one round (ish) kill. Greater Grapple + Expert Captor. You opponent would be Tied Up in 1 round.
That really sort of twists the Order.
The wording for that Order for that the Cavalier has to take to get Expert Captor is him making up for his own past crimes - Murdering captured helpless enemies would create new crimes.
For starters:
Sap Master Rogue.
Grab a level of Snakebite Brawler and 5 of Scout Unchained Rogue. Take Dragon Style by way of rogue talent(ninja trick(style master)), Sap Adept and Sap Master, Bludgeoner, Power Attack and a +1 merciful Earthbreaker. Charge (through allies and terrain.) Assuming your hit connects, you should be nailing your target for 2d6 + 1.5(Str) +6 + 2d6 + 8d6+8 nonlethal damage, or 12d6 + 1.5(Str) +14. Assuming an 18 strength, you're hitting for an average of 62 nonlethal, plenty to OHKO most any 6th level appropriate foe, provided it's not immune to non lethal or sneak attack.
But, needs moar damage and less points of failure.
Standard Shocking Grasp Magus.
With a +1 spellstoring pointy object (with empowered intensified shocking grasp loaded), cast empowered intensified shocking grasp, walk up, spellstrike to deliver. Conservative estimation assuming level 8: 1d6 + Str + 1.5(10d6) + 1.5(10d6) = ded target most of the time. That's around 104 average electricity damage.
What if I want my party to get in on the fun?
Dazing Fireballs.
Take the metamagic reducing traits of Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, selecting Fireball. Take Dazing spell metamagic feat. Pump your Fireball DC with everything else you've got. Cast Dazing Fireball from a 4th level slot. If they fail their reflex save, they're dazed for three rounds while you finish them off at your leisure. If you need more rounds to mop up, cast another Fireball. In addition to the usual (arcane) suspects, this can also be done effectively by certain species of Cleric (Theologian, Ecclesitheurge.) Make sure to grab Selective Spell to avoid nuking (and dazing) your allies!
Now I want to see a party of all three of these run around...
I mean, monsters have hit points. How you want to deplete them in a round is up to you. Save or Dies work, buckets of damage work, action denial effectively removes the 1 round restriction... Just stick them with the pointy end.
mardaddy wrote: That really sort of twists the Order.
The wording for that Order for that the Cavalier has to take to get Expert Captor is him making up for his own past crimes - Murdering captured helpless enemies would create new crimes.
I agree. I'm not suggesting a Cavalier, Order of the Penitent kill nor tolerate the cold-blooded murder of anyone.
My suggestion does not lead to literally a 1-shot kill. A 1-round victory, though, yes.
Ryzoken wrote: For starters:
Sap Master Rogue.
Grab a level of Snakebite Brawler and 5 of Scout Unchained Rogue. Take Dragon Style by way of rogue talent(ninja trick(style master)), Sap Adept and Sap Master, Bludgeoner, Power Attack and a +1 merciful Earthbreaker. Charge (through allies and terrain.) Assuming your hit connects, you should be nailing your target for 2d6 + 1.5(Str) +6 + 2d6 + 8d6+8 nonlethal damage, or 12d6 + 1.5(Str) +14. Assuming an 18 strength, you're hitting for an average of 62 nonlethal, plenty to OHKO most any 6th level appropriate foe, provided it's not immune to non lethal or sneak attack.
But, needs moar damage and less points of failure.
Standard Shocking Grasp Magus.
With a +1 spellstoring pointy object (with empowered intensified shocking grasp loaded), cast empowered intensified shocking grasp, walk up, spellstrike to deliver. Conservative estimation assuming level 8: 1d6 + Str + 1.5(10d6) + 1.5(10d6) = ded target most of the time. That's around 104 average electricity damage.
What if I want my party to get in on the fun?
Dazing Fireballs.
Take the metamagic reducing traits of Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, selecting Fireball. Take Dazing spell metamagic feat. Pump your Fireball DC with everything else you've got. Cast Dazing Fireball from a 4th level slot. If they fail their reflex save, they're dazed for three rounds while you finish them off at your leisure. If you need more rounds to mop up, cast another Fireball. In addition to the usual (arcane) suspects, this can also be done effectively by certain species of Cleric (Theologian, Ecclesitheurge.) Make sure to grab Selective Spell to avoid nuking (and dazing) your allies!
Now I want to see a party of all three of these run around...
I mean, monsters have hit points. How you want to deplete them in a round is up to you. Save or Dies work, buckets of damage work, action denial effectively removes the 1 round restriction... Just stick them with the pointy end.
Out of curiosity, how is an 8th level Magus attaining CL 10th on his shocking grasp?
Well, there's 3 levels of Snakebite Striker Brawler with Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Vicious Stomp, and Greater Feint, plus Lorewarden with Felling Smash:
Snake Feint move action -> Sneak Attack two-handed standard action Power Attack -> Felling Smash Trip -> Sneak Attack Greater Trip AoO -> Sneak Attack Vicious Stomp AoO.
Not sure exactly how fast the whole thing can come together, but there's a lot of bonus feats in there and you don't need the whole chain at low levels.
Does feint really make them flatfooted that long? I thought it was for just the next attack.
Ryzoken wrote: Sap Master Rogue.
Grab a level of Snakebite Brawler and 5 of Scout Unchained Rogue. Take Dragon Style by way of rogue talent(ninja trick(style master)), Sap Adept and Sap Master, Bludgeoner, Power Attack and a +1 merciful Earthbreaker. Charge (through allies and terrain.) Assuming your hit connects, you should be nailing your target for 2d6 + 1.5(Str) +6 + 2d6 + 8d6+8 nonlethal damage, or 12d6 + 1.5(Str) +14. Assuming an 18 strength, you're hitting for an average of 62 nonlethal, plenty to OHKO most any 6th level appropriate foe, provided it's not immune to non lethal or sneak attack.
You need a way to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage, and you have a powerful build. You mentioned Bludgeoner. That makes me think Cornudgeon Smash and Shatter Defenses, which requires Dazzling Diaplay, making your opponents Flatfooted through Intimidation. There are a lot of creatures that can't be Intimidated, though. Also it takes a Full Round Action to Initimidate a crowd with Dazzling Display or 3 hits from a Full Attack Action with Cornudgeon Smash: 1 to Shake them, 1 to make the Flatfooted, and then the 3rd scores Sneak Attack Damage.
If you take 1 level in Arcanist or Cleric with the Travelling Domain, you gain a tactical teleport--dimensional Slide and Hop--that you can use to Flank with.
Another thing. Rocking out the Sneak Attack, the more attacks/round you get the better. Play a Tengu with Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch. Acquire a Helm of the Mammoth Lord, and you get a Gore Attack. Acquire a Tentacle Cloak, and that's 2 Tentacle Attacks. While you're at it, make an Unarmed Strike too, maybe taking 2 Weapon fighting, maybe an Alchemal Tentacle or 2. 'Hair, Tentacles, Bite, and Claws all do Blunt Damage and all work with Sap Master. And since we are talking about at least 5 attacks/round, This is a way to start scoring your Sneak Attack Damage with Shatter Defenses right away.
Cory Stafford 29 wrote: Does feint really make them flatfooted that long? I thought it was for just the next attack. For locking in your Sneak Attack Damage with Feinting, you've got to get a Mask of the Stony Demeanor: +5 on Bluff Checks to Feint, and it costs like 500gp.
For locking in melee Sneak Attack Damage, I favor Dirty Tricks. I feel like there are more creatures you can Blind than you can fake out. And if Blinding them doesn't deny them their Dex bonuses, Blinding and Deafening them will.
BadBird wrote: Not sure exactly how fast the whole thing can come together, Both Greater Feint and Greater Dirty Tricks require a BAB of +6, and so does Quick Dirty Trick. Going with either Feint or Dirty Tricks also requires either Dirty Fighting or Combat Expertise.
BadBird wrote: Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Vicious Stomp, and Greater Feint, plus Lorewarden with Felling Smash: All of those are Feats, iirc, so at least 1 level each. It sounds like you want to work in a Tripping Feature as well, reasonable, since Improved Trip also requires Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting. The Attack of Opportunity from Greater Trip stacks with that from Vicious Stomp: you get 1 AoO from Tripping them, another for making them go Prone.
For a Tripping Weapon, I'm thinking the Quickdraw, Throwing Shield. Since it is a Throwing, Ranged Weapon, you can Trip opponents and never risk getting Tripped yourself. Get a Blinkback Belt, and the Shield comes back to you when you throw it. Since Throwing a Throwing Shield is a Free Action, it teleports back to the 'Belt instantly, and you can re-draw it as a Free Action, this can be used to give you extra attacks, infinitely many if the GM allows it. Also, you can use it while in melee without Provoking Attacks of Opportunity since they are all just Free Actions. If you take Snapshot Feats, you might also do something like Trip someone at Range then use the 'Shield again to make you Attack of Opportunity with Greater Trip.
BadBird wrote: Lorewarden Lorewarden's cool, but also take a look at Eldritch Guardian the Familiar you gain will have all the Combat Feats you have, including Precise Strike (Teamwork Feat: another 1d6 of Sneak Attack Damage), Harder they Fall (another Teamwork Feat: Tripping oversized creatures), and give you your Flanking buddy as well as someone who can join you in Attacks of Opprotunity (Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, and Paired Opportunist).
There is a problem with both Feinting and Dirty Tricks vis a vis Sap Master. Both can be used to deny your opponents' Dex Bonuses to AC, but neither makes your oppnents Flatfooted. Only Shatter Defenses does that.
There is another way to double up on your Sneak Attack Damage apart from Sap Master: Grappling. Wear Armor Spikes. With Every successful Grapple Attack, you also do Armor Spike Damage, and since the Grapple Check is a separate Attack, you also do Sneak Attack Damage. Tentacles and Hair all have Grab or something like it, so can already score bonus Grapple Attacks for you. If you take Hamatula Strike, your Piercing Attacks, including Gore and Bite, also score bonus Grapple Attacks. If you take Snake Style, so will your Unarmed Strikes. If you take Feral Combat Training for your Claws, then so will they. Since HS works with Piercing Weapons and Sap Master works with blunt weapons when doing Nonlethal Damage, they don't really play well together.
Enforcer, not Bludgeoner. Sorry. The build is designed to charge, triggering a sneak attack due to Scout, hit with nonlethal to trigger Enforcer to intimidate for shaken, brutal beating to sicken, debilitating injury, then bounce away to debuff the next guy. Pounce or Pummeling Charge is on my radar as high level things to pursue. But it works fine with Scout 4 Monk 1 Swashbuckler 1.
Non-PFS, there's "You and what army?" "Me and this army!" - summon, animate, bind, hire or otherwise throw mooks at the enemy.
Probably not what you meant though. I'm guessing from what you've implied above that you want a single character without significant magic of their own, though probably still using permanent if not expendable magic items.
There is of course the shining knight option. Take a halfling cavalier in the order of the flame, pick up power attack, risky striker and spirited charge (+ prereqs) and watch the damage pile up. At 8th level you're looking at 3*(1d6 + 1.5*Str + 17) on a challenge charge before adding magic items or glorious challenges, or on an ordinary attack with a challenge (vs. anything Large or bigger) 1d6 + 1.5*Str + 23 per attack. As the glorious challenges stack up you could be doing more of course.
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An easy way is to wield a x4 crit weapon and have a friend with butterfly sting pass you crits from a 18-20 weapon. If you want to be extra cheesy about it, you can abuse the you are your own ally rule and TWF with a pick and kukri and give the crits to yourself. However, I wouldn't allow in a game I was running, but it is pfs legal.
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I've never really understood why people cry 'abuse' when Butterfly Sting is used between two weapons on a single character. TWF with two different weapons, sacrificing an already confirmed critical... I don't really get the overwhelming cheese angle. If anything, it makes more sense conceptually on a single character than with two. If someone wants to go for a TWF Butterfly's Sting character instead of another Ragepounce clone...
We ran through Emerald Spire with a party of PFS characters that were all built to take advantage of Butterfly's Sting, Outflank, Paired Opportunists, and the like. Had a support swashbuckler that twf'd to crit fish, triggering butterfly sting and outflank, which then triggered Paired Opportunists, for more swings for more crit fishing. Our combo went off around level 9 for 300ish damage on a single large critter in the first round of combat. Out tag line was "Will it blend?"
That group contained a Lucerne hammer reach cleric, a kensai magus, and an inquisitor that passed out bane to the group. It was... Disgusting.
I was not aware that inquisitors could give bane to others. Is that a feat or archetype I am unaware of?
Branded for Retribution, maybe? Not sure, I never saw the particulars of his build. I just remember him passing bane, casting litanies, and stripping out of his full plate to disable traps.
That last is not a euphemism. The word choice was exceedingly deliberate.
Imbicatus wrote: An easy way is to wield a x4 crit weapon and have a friend with butterfly sting pass you crits from a 18-20 weapon. If you want to be extra cheesy about it, you can abuse the you are your own ally rule and TWF with a pick and kukri and give the crits to yourself. However, I wouldn't allow in a game I was running, but it is pfs legal. You could be and Eldritch Guardian and give your Monkey Familiar a Crit Weapon, an Urumi, Maybe, while you used a Kukri and a Dwarven Waraxe. With Seize the moment and Improved Crit, of course.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Imbicatus wrote: An easy way is to wield a x4 crit weapon and have a friend with butterfly sting pass you crits from a 18-20 weapon. If you want to be extra cheesy about it, you can abuse the you are your own ally rule and TWF with a pick and kukri and give the crits to yourself. However, I wouldn't allow in a game I was running, but it is pfs legal. You could be and Eldritch Guardian and give your Monkey Familiar a Crit Weapon, an Urumi, Maybe, while you used a Kukri and a Dwarven Waraxe. With Seize the moment and Improved Crit, of course. Not in PFS.
Ryzoken wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Imbicatus wrote: An easy way is to wield a x4 crit weapon and have a friend with butterfly sting pass you crits from a 18-20 weapon. If you want to be extra cheesy about it, you can abuse the you are your own ally rule and TWF with a pick and kukri and give the crits to yourself. However, I wouldn't allow in a game I was running, but it is pfs legal. You could be and Eldritch Guardian and give your Monkey Familiar a Crit Weapon, an Urumi, Maybe, while you used a Kukri and a Dwarven Waraxe. With Seize the moment and Improved Crit, of course. Not in PFS. No? What's not RAW? Eldritch Guardian?
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Ryzoken wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Imbicatus wrote: An easy way is to wield a x4 crit weapon and have a friend with butterfly sting pass you crits from a 18-20 weapon. If you want to be extra cheesy about it, you can abuse the you are your own ally rule and TWF with a pick and kukri and give the crits to yourself. However, I wouldn't allow in a game I was running, but it is pfs legal. You could be and Eldritch Guardian and give your Monkey Familiar a Crit Weapon, an Urumi, Maybe, while you used a Kukri and a Dwarven Waraxe. With Seize the moment and Improved Crit, of course. Not in PFS. No? What's not RAW? Eldritch Guardian? Or what RAW here is not allowed in PFS?
There is an FAQ specific to PFS that prohibits animal companions from using manufactured weaponry. Or most items, for that matter, barring certain exceptions. Familiars also.
Animal Companions by default in PFS can use neck and shoulder(saddle) slots, but nothing else, regardless of intelligence or other rules elements barring the Extra Item Slot feat, which still won't allow them to use a manufactured weapon. Familiars are likewise restricted to those items, but certain improved familiars can use wands.
It's a whole thing. Let me dig up the link...
Here ya go
Ryzoken wrote: There is an FAQ specific to PFS that prohibits animal companions from using manufactured weaponry. Or most items, for that matter, barring certain exceptions. Familiars also.
Animal Companions by default in PFS can use neck and shoulder(saddle) slots, but nothing else, regardless of intelligence or other rules elements barring the Extra Item Slot feat, which still won't allow them to use a manufactured weapon. Familiars are likewise restricted to those items, but certain improved familiars can use wands.
It's a whole thing.
Would you cite that please and/or quote that please? I would like to examine it. It might be relevant to what I am proposing.
I'm talking about a Familiar, though, not an Animal Companion. The Eldritch Guardian Fighter Archetype specifies that at level 2, an Eldritch Guardian's Familiar knows all the Combat Feats it's master knows. Exotic Weapon Proficiency is a Combat Feat, and so an Eldritch Guardian's Familiar would know it. I figure it would have to be a Familiar with hands such as a Monkey Familiar. And I seem to recall there are spells that anthropormorphize animals.
Edit: Whoops, I see you cited and linked to it already. Reading...
FAQ wrote: Animal companions of any type may not use manufactured weapons. Again, I'm talking about Familiar, not Animal Companions.
FAQ wrote: It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items. Interesting, I was thinking "activate" meant doing things like using a Magic Wand, using the Spell in a Ring of Spell Storing, or turning on or off an Eversmoking Bottle. I wouldn't suppose you are "activating" a magic sword, only wielding it. But I seem to recall magic swords have a term attached to them called "use activated." That might count as "activate." I need to read further.
FAQ wrote: The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. Doesn't this mean that a Brownie Familiar or something like could use a magic weapon? And this idea might work if you took
d20pfsrd, Using Magic Items wrote: Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. a character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory. I guess magic swords are "use activated," and use activated technically counts as "activated."
The Anthropormorphic Animal Spell should allow you to use a Familiar that can use magic weapons.
Anthropormorphic Animal wrote: One pair of its limbs is able to manipulate objects and weapons as well as human hands do; limbless animals like snakes temporarily grow a pair of arms.
[For PFS]
Expect Table Variation.
That's not to say you couldn't try this, but I'm not comfortable making recommendations about familiars using weapons when animal companions aren't permitted to do so. That line is just too thin, I can see a lot of GMs ruling against it, and thus I can't recommend it.
[/For PFS]
Works fine in home games, provided you get your GM on board. But yeah.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: The Anthropormorphic Animal Spell should allow you to use a Familiar that can use magic weapons.
Anthropormorphic Animal wrote: One pair of its limbs is able to manipulate objects and weapons as well as human hands do; limbless animals like snakes temporarily grow a pair of arms.
Anthropormorphic Animal is PFS Legal.
Pathfinder Soceity Additional Resources, Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Magic wrote: Spells: all spells are legal for play except blood transcription and those which grant a spellblight (such as curse of magic negation or steal voice);
Ryzoken wrote: [For PFS]
Expect Table Variation.
That's not to say you couldn't try this, but I'm not comfortable making recommendations about familiars using weapons when animal companions aren't permitted to do so. That line is just too thin, I can see a lot of GMs ruling against it, and thus I can't recommend it.
[/For PFS]
Works fine in home games, provided you get your GM on board. But yeah.
Upon research, I feel pretty confident advising you can arm a Brownie Familiar or a Familiar under the influence of Anthropomorphic Animal in PFS, and a GM who tries to stop you when you take the trouble to do something like cast a level 3 Spell or take Improved Familiar to do this is in the wrong.
Meanwhile, there are plenty of other good reasons for taking an Eldritch Guardian Familiar, Improved Critical, Exotic Weapon Urumi (or something) or Improved Familiar, that working in a feature like this might not represent a huge investment that will ruin your character even if you are the victim of a bad ruling.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Ryzoken wrote: [For PFS]
Expect Table Variation.
That's not to say you couldn't try this, but I'm not comfortable making recommendations about familiars using weapons when animal companions aren't permitted to do so. That line is just too thin, I can see a lot of GMs ruling against it, and thus I can't recommend it.
[/For PFS]
Works fine in home games, provided you get your GM on board. But yeah.
Upon research, I feel pretty confident advising you can arm a Brownie Familiar or a Familiar under the influence of Anthropomorphic Animal in PFS, and a GM who tries to stop you when you take the trouble to do something like cast a level 3 Spell or take Improved Familiar to do this is in the wrong.
Meanwhile, there are plenty of other good reasons for taking an Eldritch Guardian Familiar, Improved Critical, Exotic Weapon Urumi (or something) or Improved Familiar, that working in a feature like this might not represent a huge investment that will ruin your character even if you are the victim of a bad ruling. Are you advising against this even for Brownie Familiars?
For a Kill them Quick thread, I feel like there should be a link to this:
Ways to get death attack in PFS?
mardaddy wrote: That really sort of twists the Order.
The wording for that Order for that the Cavalier has to take to get Expert Captor is him making up for his own past crimes - Murdering captured helpless enemies would create new crimes.
I agree.
Name your horse "Hippo Crazy", give it the throat slicer feat, wash your hands clean of responsibility after every murderous act that that animal commits against unjudged potential wrongdoers and berate it sternly but compassionately in the best religious traditions and take up whistling as a hobby.
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Kris Verschaeve wrote: mardaddy wrote: That really sort of twists the Order.
The wording for that Order for that the Cavalier has to take to get Expert Captor is him making up for his own past crimes - Murdering captured helpless enemies would create new crimes.
I agree.
Name your horse "Hippo Crazy", give it the throat slicer feat, wash your hands clean of responsibility after every murderous act that that animal commits against unjudged potential wrongdoers and berate it sternly but compassionately in the best religious traditions and take up whistling as a hobby. Hey Kris, you read my response to mardaddy, didn't you?
I wrote: I agree. I'm not suggesting a Cavalier, Order of the Penitent kill nor tolerate the cold-blooded murder of anyone.
My suggestion does not lead to literally a 1-shot kill. A 1-round victory, though, yes.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Are you advising against this even for Brownie Familiars? Let me clarify: I'm not advising either way on the issue of familiars (in general) wielding weapons regardless of rules elements used save to warn to expect table variation in PFS. I have no dog in that fight, if you'll pardon the pun, and no interest in debating what is a very grey area created by (in my opinion) unclear wording in an faq.
In either case, we've drifted far afield of the thread topic and should curtail further discussion of this in this thread. Not that I'm particularly interested in debating it further. Again, no dog.
A request: please use the edit button instead of triple posting. Things read cleaner and more concisely, particularly if a single train of thought is contained in a single post.
Ryzoken wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Are you advising against this even for Brownie Familiars? Let me clarify: I'm not advising either way on the issue of familiars (in general) wielding weapons regardless of rules elements used save to warn to expect table variation in PFS. I have no dog in that fight, if you'll pardon the pun, and no interest in debating what is a very grey area created by (in my opinion) unclear wording in an faq.
In either case, we've drifted far afield of the thread topic and should curtail further discussion of this in this thread. Not that I'm particularly interested in debating it further. Again, no dog.
A request: please use the edit button instead of triple posting. Things read cleaner and more concisely, particularly if a single train of thought is contained in a single post. Well, you raised a valid point that it is a gray area arming a Monkey Familiar even when it is proficient with the weapon, and I feel I gave due diligence to your point and further refined my advice in response to your concerns.
You and I started because somebody suggested using Crits and Butterfly Sting to inflict massive damage in 1 round, which might be less than fitting a thread called "Kill them Quickly," but I don't think it's a terrible fit.
As to your aesthetic notions of proper posting, I will try to respect your sensibilities in the future. I don't normally post like that, but I felt like conveying the sense of time as if it were a real-time conversation, that conveying the currency of my evolving thought process might not be uninteresting to readers. Anyway, I realized you were online, and wanted to answer you promptly.
Meanwhile, my intention was to examine your concerns with due diligence and offer solutions insofar as you pointed out problems. I think that is just what I did, and I think that you and I working together colored in this gray area.
Sorry, and you're welcome.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Ryzoken wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Are you advising against this even for Brownie Familiars? Let me clarify: I'm not advising either way on the issue of familiars (in general) wielding weapons regardless of rules elements used save to warn to expect table variation in PFS. I have no dog in that fight, if you'll pardon the pun, and no interest in debating what is a very grey area created by (in my opinion) unclear wording in an faq.
In either case, we've drifted far afield of the thread topic and should curtail further discussion of this in this thread. Not that I'm particularly interested in debating it further. Again, no dog.
A request: please use the edit button instead of triple posting. Things read cleaner and more concisely, particularly if a single train of thought is contained in a single post. Well, you raised a valid point that it is a gray area arming a Monkey Familiar even when it is proficient with the weapon, and I feel I gave due diligence to your point and further refined my advice in response to your concerns.
You and I started because somebody suggested using Crits and Butterfly Sting to inflict massive damage in 1 round, which might be less than fitting a thread called "Kill them Quickly," but I don't think it's a terrible fit.
As to your aesthetic notions of proper posting, I will try to respect your sensibilities in the future. I don't normally post like that, but I felt like conveying the sense of time as if it were a real-time conversation, that conveying the currency of my evolving thought process might not be uninteresting to readers. Anyway, I realized you were online, and wanted to answer you promptly.
Meanwhile, my intention was to examine your concerns with due diligence and offer solutions insofar as you pointed out problems. I think that is just what I did, and I think that you and I working together colored in this gray area.
Sorry, and you're welcome. No harm, no foul! Sorry if I came across insultingly.
But yeah, Butterfly's Sting + Outflank can be one heck of a combo.
Ryzoken wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Ryzoken wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Are you advising against this even for Brownie Familiars? Let me clarify: I'm not advising either way on the issue of familiars (in general) wielding weapons regardless of rules elements used save to warn to expect table variation in PFS. I have no dog in that fight, if you'll pardon the pun, and no interest in debating what is a very grey area created by (in my opinion) unclear wording in an faq.
In either case, we've drifted far afield of the thread topic and should curtail further discussion of this in this thread. Not that I'm particularly interested in debating it further. Again, no dog.
A request: please use the edit button instead of triple posting. Things read cleaner and more concisely, particularly if a single train of thought is contained in a single post. Well, you raised a valid point that it is a gray area arming a Monkey Familiar even when it is proficient with the weapon, and I feel I gave due diligence to your point and further refined my advice in response to your concerns.
You and I started because somebody suggested using Crits and Butterfly Sting to inflict massive damage in 1 round, which might be less than fitting a thread called "Kill them Quickly," but I don't think it's a terrible fit.
As to your aesthetic notions of proper posting, I will try to respect your sensibilities in the future. I don't normally post like that, but I felt like conveying the sense of time as if it were a real-time conversation, that conveying the currency of my evolving thought process might not be uninteresting to readers. Anyway, I realized you were online, and wanted to answer you promptly.
Meanwhile, my intention was to examine your concerns with due diligence and offer solutions insofar as you pointed out problems. I think that is just what I did, and I think that you and I working together colored in this gray area.
Sorry, and you're welcome. No harm, no foul! Sorry if I came... We're cool.
I read the response, I was just offering a hilarious alternative... Not all tables have the same level of seriousness.
I think the option I presented would fly at my table and at some others but it may not necessarily fly at other tables, YMMV, you know, if not just take it a joke that was the primary purpose.
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