Going fast and wearing plate mail


Advice


I would like recommendations on a build thematically focused on speed while wearing full plate. Armor expert+ armor training 1+ mthril gives moving at full speed with only 1 ACP, which is manageable.
Current plan:
Oracle (metal) 5 gives armour training, heavy armour prof, and dance of the blades (through a ring or Extra Revelation).
Swash 1 for easy slashing grace
scout rogue X
Alternatives and/or feat suggestions appreciated.


From memory, Hellknights get to move their full speed in hellknight plate.


Just a note, metal mystery's armor mastery isn't "armor training", that's an important distinction for prereq purposes. Also armor mastery doesn't work with heavy armor, but I assume mithral full plate is a plan for your build.

Level dip metal oracle for armor mastery and get dance of the blades via Extra Revelation feat. Ring works but crazy expensive and who wants to lose the speed bonus if suddenly magic is taken away or doesn't work?

Take a level in cleric or inquisitor with travel domain for extra +10 ft.

Go full vigilante afterwards. I prefer avenger for the full BAB. Get shadow's speed (+10 speed, it'll become +20 later), lethal grace (for a comparable, if not stronger damage boost than slashing grace), and Spymaster's Handbook has Fantastic Stride granting 6th level vigilantes Spring Attack, when you can afford mithral full plate pick up Heavy Training talent.


Hellknight PrC gets full movement in Hellknight Plate, but it takes a lot of levels and unrelated opportunity costs to get there. Variant Multiclassing Fighter would work regardless of your class selection, and a 3 level dip in Fighter would work for any Mithril Heavy Armor, and also grants enough proficiencies and feats to hit Slashing Grace as early as 2nd level if you really want it...

However I fail to understand why anybody would want to put a Dex Build in heavy armor. The weight of mithril heavy armor alone will bring most dex builds near or to a medium load; killing your movement speed unless you're a dwarf, limiting dex bonus to AC, and applying a worse Armor check penalty than the armor does (one that cannot be reduced mind you). If the build also has a fairly high Strength, weight isn't an issue, but the benefits of Slashing Grace are greatly reduced or even nonexistent. Unless you can get a +3 or better to damage from Slashing Grace or just absolutely have to be able to use/regain panache from a Bastard Sword or Katana than it just isn't worth it.

I don't understand why many players are so obsessed with Dexterity that they are willing to feat tax themselves into oblivion just to do with their Dexterity what Strength could give them much less expensively.


Cantriped wrote:

Hellknight PrC gets full movement in Hellknight Plate, but it takes a lot of levels and unrelated opportunity costs to get there. Variant Multiclassing Fighter would work regardless of your class selection, and a 3 level dip in Fighter would work for any Mithril Heavy Armor, and also grants enough proficiencies and feats to hit Slashing Grace as early as 2nd level if you really want it...

However I fail to understand why anybody would want to put a Dex Build in heavy armor. The weight of mithril heavy armor alone will bring most dex builds near or to a medium load; killing your movement speed unless you're a dwarf, limiting dex bonus to AC, and applying a worse Armor check penalty than the armor does (one that cannot be reduced mind you). If the build also has a fairly high Strength, weight isn't an issue, but the benefits of Slashing Grace are greatly reduced or even nonexistent. Unless you can get a +3 or better to damage from Slashing Grace or just absolutely have to be able to use/regain panache from a Bastard Sword or Katana than it just isn't worth it.

I don't understand why many players are so obsessed with Dexterity that they are willing to feat tax themselves into oblivion just to do with their Dexterity what Strength could give them much less expensively.

I find the issue is maximizing Dex for AC along with the benefits to skills and reflex saves. As fighter you get armor training that give you +4 to Max dex and lowers ACP by 4 at 17th level. You can increase that +5 max dex with sash that increase you armor training and bravery by 4 levels. Then wear mitheral plate at 1/2 the weight for another 2 increase to your Max dex. Then with armor master guide book you can add 1 more to you max dex with a feat. So you can get Full Plate with a 0 ACP and +9 max dex at level 17. So you might want that 28 Dex and since you have 28 dex then dex to damage is very appealing. You only need 13 Str as that qualifies you power attack and your light load is 50lbs. So 25lbs armor, 7.5 lbs shield, and 4 lbs for sword. That leaves you 13 lbs to carry other equipment.


voska66 wrote:
Cantriped wrote:

Hellknight PrC gets full movement in Hellknight Plate, but it takes a lot of levels and unrelated opportunity costs to get there. Variant Multiclassing Fighter would work regardless of your class selection, and a 3 level dip in Fighter would work for any Mithril Heavy Armor, and also grants enough proficiencies and feats to hit Slashing Grace as early as 2nd level if you really want it...

However I fail to understand why anybody would want to put a Dex Build in heavy armor. The weight of mithril heavy armor alone will bring most dex builds near or to a medium load; killing your movement speed unless you're a dwarf, limiting dex bonus to AC, and applying a worse Armor check penalty than the armor does (one that cannot be reduced mind you). If the build also has a fairly high Strength, weight isn't an issue, but the benefits of Slashing Grace are greatly reduced or even nonexistent. Unless you can get a +3 or better to damage from Slashing Grace or just absolutely have to be able to use/regain panache from a Bastard Sword or Katana than it just isn't worth it.

I don't understand why many players are so obsessed with Dexterity that they are willing to feat tax themselves into oblivion just to do with their Dexterity what Strength could give them much less expensively.

I find the issue is maximizing Dex for AC along with the benefits to skills and reflex saves. As fighter you get armor training that give you +4 to Max dex and lowers ACP by 4 at 17th level. You can increase that +5 max dex with sash that increase you armor training and bravery by 4 levels. Then wear mitheral plate at 1/2 the weight for another 2 increase to your Max dex. Then with armor master guide book you can add 1 more to you max dex with a feat. So you can get Full Plate with a 0 ACP and +9 max dex at level 17. So you might want that 28 Dex and since you have 28 dex then dex to damage is very appealing. You only need 13 Str as that qualifies you power attack and your light load is 50lbs. So 25lbs armor,...

umm 13lbs is not a lot and can get eat up very easily, backpacks way 2 to 5 lbs. each potion weighs a 1lbs. Cloak of resistance another lbs, belt of stats another lbs. head ban another 1lbs, food clothes, bed ect. your 13lbs is way gone, but this is what master work back packs handy havard sacks, portable holes and getting + something to str ioun stone or that belt is for. this is why others say dex and full armor is bad.

Silver Crusade

Cleric with travel domain rocks. +10 ft from domain, longstrider as a domain spell.

I have a dwarf cleric with 50 ft speed in plate mail (1 level barbarian, mithril plate mail). Worth it for the expression on peoples faces when he virtually teleported around the battlefield (feather steps so ignoring difficult terrain when he wanted to).


Hellknight Commander gets their armour abilities at level 2, and the entry requirements aren't bad; BAB +5, Intimidate 5 and Knowledge (Planes) 2, heavy armour proficiency, lawful and killing a devil.

Biggest problem might just be that you don't want to be a Hellknight. Even if you re-fluff it you've got a bunch of law-themed abilities.


Thanks all, lots of cool ideas. Thinking of going with Protoman's build since the character concept for Oracle/Vigilante practically writes itself.


Armored Hulk, Barbarian

Grand Lodge

KainPen wrote:
voska66 wrote:
Cantriped wrote:

Hellknight PrC gets full movement in Hellknight Plate, but it takes a lot of levels and unrelated opportunity costs to get there. Variant Multiclassing Fighter would work regardless of your class selection, and a 3 level dip in Fighter would work for any Mithril Heavy Armor, and also grants enough proficiencies and feats to hit Slashing Grace as early as 2nd level if you really want it...

However I fail to understand why anybody would want to put a Dex Build in heavy armor. The weight of mithril heavy armor alone will bring most dex builds near or to a medium load; killing your movement speed unless you're a dwarf, limiting dex bonus to AC, and applying a worse Armor check penalty than the armor does (one that cannot be reduced mind you). If the build also has a fairly high Strength, weight isn't an issue, but the benefits of Slashing Grace are greatly reduced or even nonexistent. Unless you can get a +3 or better to damage from Slashing Grace or just absolutely have to be able to use/regain panache from a Bastard Sword or Katana than it just isn't worth it.

I don't understand why many players are so obsessed with Dexterity that they are willing to feat tax themselves into oblivion just to do with their Dexterity what Strength could give them much less expensively.

I find the issue is maximizing Dex for AC along with the benefits to skills and reflex saves. As fighter you get armor training that give you +4 to Max dex and lowers ACP by 4 at 17th level. You can increase that +5 max dex with sash that increase you armor training and bravery by 4 levels. Then wear mitheral plate at 1/2 the weight for another 2 increase to your Max dex. Then with armor master guide book you can add 1 more to you max dex with a feat. So you can get Full Plate with a 0 ACP and +9 max dex at level 17. So you might want that 28 Dex and since you have 28 dex then dex to damage is very appealing. You only need 13 Str as that qualifies you power attack and your light load
...

Ah yes, carrying capacity. No need to worry though, for just a 1000 gp, muleback cords boost your effective strength by 8 for carrying capacity. My sorcerer alias here despite having only 8 strength, can more than well "pull his weight". Yes, you can have a 13 STR and out "packmule" a barbarian...


yeah but those don't fix the problem, the problem is still there when you get in anti magic field you are going to be shut down and ineffective as martial in full plate based on dex. Since that is the main topic seems to be moving fast and full plate and being a build dex build and dumping str. The only real fix is the portable hole, it weight 0, in anti magic field it just become inaccessible. Muleback cords are good for caster if you don't mind losing save bonus from cloak of resistance, but and arcane caster is not going to be wearing full plate. it is a bad item choice for all dex martials, expect a dex based paladin or urban superstitious barbarian. that need the cloak of resistance a lot more then they need the carrying load.

This topic also goes to show you how few GM actually enforce encumbrance rules if someone with 13 str in mithril full plate and a shield can get by with out having problems in a game. I understand why they don't just like most gm I notice don't enforces number of spell in spell book. it is a lot of book keeping.

I enforce those rules strictly it effect casters and alchemist greatly and helps balance out the game little more with those classes. Most of those classes don't use str as dump stat in my games any more. They have low STR, but I almost never see a less then 10 str any more.

Grand Lodge

You could also dip a level of barbarian/bloodrager, or grab the boots of springing and striding. I don't believe they stack with the barbarian, but they do stack with the bloodrager.


pauljathome wrote:

Cleric with travel domain rocks. +10 ft from domain, longstrider as a domain spell.

I have a dwarf cleric with 50 ft speed in plate mail (1 level barbarian, mithril plate mail). Worth it for the expression on peoples faces when he virtually teleported around the battlefield (feather steps so ignoring difficult terrain when he wanted to).

+1 though I rock stone plate just for fun...

...can stay a cleric though no reason to dip...plus a nice heavy steel shield....

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