I'm slightly surprised I've not seen someone in my group try this before and was even more surprised when they were shocked at the build.
Okay, everyone in my group is a firm believer in having a backup character, just in case your guy dies and there's no method to Raise them. It's nice not having to sit out the rest of the session. Anyway I made an Elf Wizard as we don't really have any arcane talent in the party currently, actually we've only got a Witch, everyone picked martial types.
Anyway, the build, Elf, wizard, we're currently second level, I managed to get 20 in both Int and Dex, (Transmutation specialist ability).
I pointed out that my guy can cast Mage Armor, Shield and then wade into combat with a 23 AC.
Has anyone else used this build? I'm curious.
Sure you can roll into melee like that, but what are you going to do to the enemy? And once an enemy rolls the 16 or 18 they need to hit you, how long will you last? And a smart enemy that ignores your ac and grapples you can just smash your fragile little elf bones.
You can do almost the same thing as a magus, though it takes a mithral shirt instead of mage armour, past that point blur, mirror image etc. are better than AC anyway.
The build works as long as the DM does not think out side of the box of standard attacks. The problem is that DMs are more likely to do that since they are playing with already dead characters the characters just do not know it yet. They also get to play with monsters with all kinds of odd abilities.
As you level up, the benefits of casting spells is going to vastly outstrip your ability to contribute by wading into combat. After a while the opportunity cost just becomes unbearable.
Why do you want to go in melee anyway, just being there means you either make concentration checks to cast defensively or give the enemy free attacks, and you gain pretty much nothing from it, I guess if you really wanted to use some touch spells it might work. You don't have the BAB to actually hit anything normally.
That's why I went the Transmutation specialist. You get all the fun spells instead of just being a blaster.
Now does this build lose its usefulness at higher levels? Absolutely.
But until level 5 when you start getting the really good spells playing as a Magus increases survivability by a huge margin.
And it creates a far more interesting dynamic when everyone was like "A wizard? oh cool." then I whip out a sword and start slashing dudes up after I've debuffed them, far more memorable
Sure you can roll into melee like that, but what are you going to do to the enemy? And once an enemy rolls the 16 or 18 they need to hit you, how long will you last? And a smart enemy that ignores your ac and grapples you can just smash your fragile little elf bones.
Well for one I actually have a reasonable attack what with a +5 from Dex, as well as a weapon that hits reasonably hard.
For 2 yes, I am squishy. But thats sort of the point isn't it? Sometimes its fun to play the glass cannon.As for enemies that grapple and crush, well with all the knowledge skills wizards get I can recognize those and then I stay back and fire away with my Longbow that I'm proficient with. And that high AC suddenly annoys all those ranged enemies doesn't it?
EDIT: actually this does raise a question of what type of bonus Mage Armor and Shield give. If its Deflection bonus then they would raise my CMD preventing grapple crushing as well.
You can do almost the same thing as a magus, though it takes a mithral shirt instead of mage armour, past that point blur, mirror image etc. are better than AC anyway.
Right, I'm considering a one level dip into magus mostly for the combat casting and dual wielding weapon and spells. Mithril shirts are expensive though, I need all that money for making magic scrolls so I have lots of castings ready to go. Blur and Mirror Image will be amazing indeed once I can get them.
You can do almost the same thing as a magus, though it takes a mithral shirt instead of mage armour, past that point blur, mirror image etc. are better than AC anyway.Right, I'm considering a one level dip into magus mostly for the combat casting and dual wielding weapon and spells. Mithril shirts are expensive though, I need all that money for making magic scrolls so I have lots of castings ready to go. Blur and Mirror Image will be amazing indeed once I can get them.
Keep in mind that you'll only be able to use Spell Combat and Spellstrike with the spells in your very few, low-level Magus Slots.
Keep in mind that you'll only be able to use Spell Combat and Spellstrike with the spells in your very few, low-level Magus Slots.You can do almost the same thing as a magus, though it takes a mithral shirt instead of mage armour, past that point blur, mirror image etc. are better than AC anyway.Right, I'm considering a one level dip into magus mostly for the combat casting and dual wielding weapon and spells. Mithril shirts are expensive though, I need all that money for making magic scrolls so I have lots of castings ready to go. Blur and Mirror Image will be amazing indeed once I can get them.
A very good point, thankfully my DM house ruled it and said I can combine my Wiz and Magus spell slots and count them all as Wizard. He figured it would work as Magus are essentially War Wizards and they cast the same way anyway. :D
Do you mean you can count your Wizard spell slots as Magus spell slots? Because it isn't really useful if it's the way you said it.
Do you mean you can count your Wizard spell slots as Magus spell slots? Because it isn't really useful if it's the way you said it.
Sorry. Basically the Magus abilities apply to both classes and I get to combine my spell books and spell slots. The only ability he didn't let me use like this was the light armor proficiency.
Then you can become really powerful. Being a Magus with the Wizard spell list and spell progression would be crazy good.
Taking a second level for Spellstrike might be worth it. (One level in Esoteric Magus would get you both, but Spellstrike would only work with your Unarmed Strikes unless you went Ascetic Style.)
For armor, Mage Armor is going to be your best option for a while. But at higher levels there are a lot of nice armor and shield options for Wizards that didn't exist years ago: Djezet Skin, Wizard's Mail, Haramaki, the Unhindering Shield feat, etc.
@OP: What do you mean no arcane talent in the party? I'd say the Witch certainly counts, as well as being able to pinch-hit divine-equivalent casting.
From an earlier post (slightly edited):
Reach Eldritch Knight (however, Rules As Written, Maneuver Mastery doesn't work due to lack of effective Magus levels for Magus Arcana Effect, because VMC Magus only gives effective Magus levels for qualifying -- therefore, you may need to pick another Magus Arcana instead -- see the following few posts). But if you get your GM to rule in your favor on this, you're good to go -- just take Transmuter instead of what is recommended in here.
Reach Blade Adept Arcanist with Bloodrager Dip and the following few posts (however, some on these boards argue that the Arcanist Exploit Bloodline Development doesn't work on Bloodrager Bloodlines, so expect table variation; on the other hand, if you get past that, this one DOES fix the above problem with the Magus Arcana Maneuver Mastery, because Blade Adept Arcanist gives you effective Magus levels for effect, and while it doesn't offer Maneuver Magus itself, VMC Magus does). This DOES get you Maneuver Mastery working as intended with Rules As Written, and doesn't even need to go into Eldritch Knight (which would in fact be detrimental to this build), although instead of your spellcasting class being Wizard, it will be Arcanist.
At one point, I would have recommended Orc Scarred Witch Doctor (+4 Strength makes up for several levels of 1/2 BAB), but the Scarred Witch Doctor errata of a few months ago killed this, even though it made otherwise conventional Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctors overpowered (did the errata writers forget that Half-Orcs can put that +2 ANYWHERE?).
And see this introductory post (race selection for the next 2 linked post) and this Transmuter-based Eldritch Knight build (uses Dual-Talent Human) and this other Transmuter-based Eldritch Knight build (uses Elf; also see next post in that thread).
There's an arcana to use spell combat and spellstrike with other class spells.
^Yes, Broad Study. But depending upon how much your primary class' spell list overlaps with the Magus spell list and what particular spells you want to use for Spellstrike, this may not be wroth getting in the face of limited availability of Magus Arcana, or at least you might want to delay getting it. Sorcerer/Wizard has pretty good overlap with Magus in that regard; so you might never need Broad Study; Witch and Occult casters less so, and Bard and divine casters even less. (Although if you want Bard, use the Puppetmaster Magus archetype instead -- this already does what you want.)
There's an arcana to use spell combat and spellstrike with other class spells.
The OP wants to be a Wizard with a Magus dip. You have to be a 6th level Magus to select Broad Study, and six levels is a really big dip. But apparently the GM is granting the benefits of Broad Study for free at the 1st Magus level.
Too many levels if you dip, but instead 5 feats if you go VMC Magus -- first Magus Arcana replaces your 7th level character feat. (Warning: VMC Magus gives you effective Magus levels for qualifying for Magus Arcana but not for determining their effect -- hence the hoops I went through in the Blade Adept Arcanist build I linked above, since Blade Adept Arcanist gives you effective Magus levels for determining effect, but gives you access to only a limited set of Magus Arcana.)
