We just had a campaign wrap up at level 14. Our Dwarven fighter had 42 AC, DR6/-, wielded a shield with a Nodachi/Bardiche/Lucerne Hammer, had impressive saves, and still had the feats left over to take the dwarven cleave feats and be an absolute berzerker in multi-enemy combats. He was impressive from levels 1 to 14 and the guy playing him had a lot of fun.
The WMH and AMH were exactly what fighters needed, in my opinion.
I'd think that a dwarf wouldn't get as much use out of a Fighter's armor training because they already have a slow speed unaltered by armor.
Lore Warden Martial Master seems fun.
Lore Warden Martial Master seems fun.
I was thinking about this combination for a reach fighter for PFS.
Human Fighter (Lore Warden)
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
Traits: Student of Philosophy and Armor Expert
Student of philosophy is taken to turn the modifiers for diplomacy and bluff from -2 to +2. Since this guy is for PFS it let's him participate in diplomacy which comes up alot.
Armor Expert gives us Mithril Breastplate
Skills per level: 7 (2 base + 2 int mod + 2 Lore warden + 1 race)
A nice amount of skill points we can spread out. All int skills are class skills and with a +2 int modifier we have a chance at making or at least helping with PFS skill checks.
Feats
L1: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Dodge?
L2: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
L3: Fury's Fall, Improved Dirty Trick?
I have no idea what to do with feats. All we really need is combat reflexes and improved trip/Dirty Trick. Once Martial flexibility comes online at 5 we can grab the greater version or the improved version of any other trick as needed. I was thinking of heading toward combat patrol.
The best part of martial flexibility is it gives the fighter some out of combat options. Like that feat that adds strength bonus to intimidate check or Equipment Trick when needed.
I was thinking of trying to squeeze in a level of flowing monk (gives us +2 to saves, improved unarmed strike, keeps the bonus feat, and a trip maneuver against attackers)or spellbreaker inquisitor (re-roll some will saves, access to spell lists, swift action enlarge person with growth domain?).
For the thread subject though, I think Martial Master/ Lore Warden is the best all-around fighter nowadays. We can fight well enough, we have flexibility to adapt a little to situations and we have skill points.
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When making a reach fighter, I like to go dwarf so I can rock a dwarven longaxe with a dwarven boulder helmet. And then you can also pick up the dwarven options to boost your saves.
Get your GM to give your fighter 4+Int skill points. Also, see if you can get power attack to be a combat option instead of a feat. Basically, see if he or she is willing to go with some or all of these houserules.
Skip dodge, its a waste of time. Give yourself iron will instead(or toughness at first level, use rebuilding rules before lv 2 to give yourself iron will). If you want to get a monk level, somewhere in your feat array vicious stomp, for more AOOs up close.
I'd normally agree about dodge but it's a pre-req for a lot of feats so my thought is to take it as a standard feat and have it in case it's required for something I want to use martial flexibility for.
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I'd probably skip Combat Expertise in favor of Dirty Fighting. Much less obnoxious, even if you want to keep your Int and Dex where they are.
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Name some feats with dodge for pre-req you want to use martial flexibility for. Spring attack? Not worth the time. Whirlwind attack? Also not worth the time. Windstance? Very situational.
Luckily, Martial Flexibility is all about situational!
Then again... can wait till you have two martial flex feats at a time and get dodge with it.
I'd probably skip Combat Expertise in favor of Dirty Fighting. Much less obnoxious, even if you want to keep your Int and Dex where they are.
Lore Wardens get Combat Expertise automatically.
The new Greater Transformative special property (Inner Sea Intrigue) helps alleviate the expense of pursuing multiple fighting styles. For 15,000 gp your weapon can transform into any other type of weapon (although there are some special rules regarding double weapons). At low levels this isn't that useful, but buying a +3 greatsword and a +3 bow costs more then a +3 Greater Transformative greatsword which can transform into a +3 bow (and a +3 lucerne hammer and a +3 dagger and...). As your WBL increases that 15,000 gp becomes less significant, and so you really can keep up with others who are focusing on one weapon for one fighting style.
My Party Face Fighter:
Human
Defender of the Society, Indomitable Faith
S15+2 D14 C14 I7 W12 CH14
Feats:
1. Toughness, Iron Will
2. Power Attack
3. Armored Juggernaut
4. Combat Reflexes
5. Versatile Training - Polearms (Diplomacy, Sense Motive)
6. Adaptable Training - Profession (Soldier)
7. Inspiring Bravery
8. Cut from the Air
9. Smash from the Air; replace Weapon Training II for Versatile Training - Polerams (Intimidate, Bluff)
On the note of the Eldritch Guardian, I am tempted to make one using a hawk or owl. Birds get a few attacks and once they switch from tiny to a medium warform they get a significant stat boost. Has anyone else tried that before?
On the note of the Eldritch Guardian, I am tempted to make one using a hawk or owl. Birds get a few attacks and once they switch from tiny to a medium warform they get a significant stat boost. Has anyone else tried that before?
I haven't tried it, but I've been thinking about it. It's a really strong choice when combined with mutation master's wings discovery, so you have an airborne fighting duo.
If you aren't in PFS, the Wasp Familiar feat is also an interesting choice for this fighting style.
Get your GM to give your fighter 4+Int skill points. Also, see if you can get power attack to be a combat option instead of a feat. Basically, see if he or she is willing to go with some or all of these houserules.A touch tricky when the guy said he was building for PFS, don'tcha think?
Oops forgot
Ok, so a Fighter would do well in specializing in a weapon or group, as well as in a particular fighting style?
Does he have enough versatility to combine multiple fighting roles (say... being a Bodyguard kinda guy and also a mobile fighter, or being a tank kinda guy but also be able to 'shutdown' or harass casters)?
One of my personal favorites for a fighter is to make her human, gaining the extra feat at first level. She now has 3 feats to start. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Sawtooth Saber (is considered a light weapon for purposes of two weapon fighting), Weapon Focus: Sawtooth Saber (is applicable to both weapons simultaniously) and Two Weapon Fighting. Given that in just one level, you'll be gaining another feat, go for either Improved Initiative and get a quicker attack time or go for Double Slice and apply more strength damage.
I've found great success with this build and use it quite often. The fighter's full attack bonus makes the penalties almost negligible.
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Ok, so a Fighter would do well in specializing in a weapon or group, as well as in a particular fighting style?
Does he have enough versatility to combine multiple fighting roles (say... being a Bodyguard kinda guy and also a mobile fighter, or being a tank kinda guy but also be able to 'shutdown' or harass casters)?
One of my personal favorites for a fighter is to make her human, gaining the extra feat at first level. She now has 3 feats to start. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Sawtooth Saber (is considered a light weapon for purposes of two weapon fighting), Weapon Focus: Sawtooth Saber (is applicable to both weapons simultaniously) and Two Weapon Fighting. Given that in just one level, you'll be gaining another feat, go for either Improved Initiative and get a quicker attack time or go for Double Slice and apply more strength damage.
I've found great success with this build and use it quite often. The fighter's full attack bonus makes the penalties almost negligible.
This is an example of a perfectly acceptable fighter, and the character power benchmark PFS and APs are made for. Noting that, you could make this same concept better with another class, and a better fighter with a different concept. TWF is weak overall, spending a feat on EWP is almost always a waste, and double slice doesn't actually add much damage for the cost of a feat.
You could do this concept better with a human ranger using kukris. At level 2 you could pick up some archery feats to have good ranged damage options, you have decent skills, and eventually a companion and spells. The difference from sawtooth saber to kukri is mostly unnoticed, and TWF really only needs the first feat and rend.
A better fighter could be made by just using a greatsword with no feat changes or anything else. Literally just drop your sabers and draw a 2-hander. I benchmark my fighters with the question "would this character just be better by using a greatsword instead of whatever style I'm currently planning on?" Most of the time, even with no investment into being 2-handed, the greatsword is a better option.
Kitsune multi tailed fighter. Only fighter build i've looked at in a while...
Even a fighter has to specialize in something. When you pick what you want to do there's always another class that does it better. Slayers tack on more damage for two weapon fighting, rangers don't need dex to two weapon fight, rangers get improved precise shot and the really good shield bash 5 levels before fighters, tetori monk grapples better
Somewhere there is a class, prestige class, alternate class, archetype, that does what you want to do better than a generic fighter picking feats.
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Straight fighters are easy to build and easy to play.
With the number of feats you get, you can usually afford to have one primary combat style and then have a secondary combat style that you're less good at. Finally, even outside of those two styles, you're still going to be decent in combat no matter what. Or, you can hyper-specialize and become an absolute beast at your preferred style.
Fighters aren't MAD, so you can have decent scores for non combat roles: Int for more skills, Cha for more socializing.
I love a good Fighter. :)
Straight fighters are easy to build and easy to play.
With the number of feats you get, you can usually afford to have one primary combat style and then have a secondary combat style that you're less good at. Finally, even outside of those two styles, you're still going to be decent in combat no matter what. Or, you can hyper-specialize and become an absolute beast at your preferred style.
Fighters aren't MAD, so you can have decent scores for non combat roles: Int for more skills, Cha for more socializing.
I love a good Fighter. :)
Can't tell if serious.
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Fighter's are my fave class too. I like a Core Rulebook fighter switch-hitting between a big 2-hander and a composite longbow utilizing Advanced Weapon Training options from the Weapon Master's Handbook. Additionally, having my GM allow for the Stamina and Combat Tricks rules from Pathfinder Unchained (and the "free for fighters" option at that) doesn't hurt.
Is there a class/build that can do this better? Sure. Is this type of fighter absolutely terrible? No. In the end, play what cranks your cheese wheel.
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Can't tell if serious.
Maybe not 100% serious, but not ironic either. I do love playing and running games for Fighters. They are certainly easy to build and play, so they're especially good for new players.
Also, I have no interest in grouping classes into "tiers" and consider that kind of power-balancing contest to be a largely academic matter.
A dex-based fighter is fairly SAD. An archer fighter doesn't even have much want for constitution.
While I do appreciate the Fighter, I don't consider it easy to build because of how much feat bloat Pathfinder has. Nor do I think they are SAD to build because of all the gaps their chassis has.
The only way I could agree is if you are talking a two handed build, which is easy for any class to build. Perhaps archery as well. If you want to anything that the Fighter is supposed to excel at, like a more exotic weapon style, or even just something like two weapon fighting, you need to do a serious amount of planning ahead for your feats and fine tuning your stats to make you qualify for said feats. By comparison, and Inquisitor, Paladin, or Bloodrager actually feels much simpler to build despite having way more class features and spells to choose.
Fighters are simple to play, but hard to build well.
On the note of the Eldritch Guardian, I am tempted to make one using a hawk or owl. Birds get a few attacks and once they switch from tiny to a medium warform they get a significant stat boost. Has anyone else tried that before?I have seen conflicting reports about this, what size to strength chart does a familiar use when using the Mauler Battleform? I have seen suggestions ranging from "they only get a +2 no matter the size" up to "+2 from ability and +6 from size change" that is quite the range of possibilities...
Edit: Actually i saw an argument that diminutive familiars get a +10 size change bonus.
We have word from the designer that you are intended to use the polymorph size change chart, and that the size change is intended to be a polymorph effect. But if you want to get exploitive, the mauler ability only says your strength score changes, so you don't technically lose dexterity from changing size.
On the note of the Eldritch Guardian, I am tempted to make one using a hawk or owl. Birds get a few attacks and once they switch from tiny to a medium warform they get a significant stat boost. Has anyone else tried that before?I have seen conflicting reports about this, what size to strength chart does a familiar use when using the Mauler Battleform? I have seen suggestions ranging from "they only get a +2 no matter the size" up to "+2 from ability and +6 from size change" that is quite the range of possibilities...
Edit: Actually i saw an argument that diminutive familiars get a +10 size change bonus.
Mark says use the polymorph rules.
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You could just get a copy of the Talented Fighter from Rogue Genius Games and create a much more versatile fighter than before.
Awesome, thanks all. A +6 total then for a small or a +8 for diminutive. Good to know.
Assuming level 3 mauler:
Small to medium = No size bonus with polymorh rules, +2 strength from battle formTiny to medium = +4 strength & -2 dexterity from size, +2 strength from battle form
Diminutive to medium = +6 strength & -4 dexterity from size, +2 strength from battle form.
And of course mauler's increased strength starting at +1 at level 3 and another +1 every 2 levels thereafter.