Familiar Folio fun. What else can you do with this stuff?


Advice

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So browsing through my Familiar Folio companion book today I noticed a lot of cool stuff. What really caught my eye was the archetype for Fighter called Eldritch Guardian and the Familiar Archetype called Mauler.

What Eldritch Guardian does for Fighter is you give up your first 2 bonus feats and Bravery for a Familiar and a +1 on will saves vs. fear/enchantments. You only need to dip 2 levels. What you gain is a familiar and if it's within 30ft of you it gains all of your Combat Feats.

Mauler is pretty cool, it takes away speaking w/master, speaking in general and speaking with animals of its type. It also limits the familiars INT score to no higher than 6 and takes away touch spells. I think that's it.

What Mauler gives is a +2 morale hit/damage for 1 round if your master drops a foe to 0 or less hitpoints. The familiar also gains +1 STR at 3rd level and every 2 levels after, they also gain +2 STR when they use their AT WILL ability to increase their size to Medium which stacks with the Size increase bonuses to STR.

Originally I thought of making a CN Swashbuckling Capt. Hook type of Pirate with a Sprite Tinkerbell familiar.

What I came up with is so dang cheesy its awesome but weak too.

There are 3 feats any class can take to gain a familiar equal to your HD, similar to the way to get an animal companion. Iron Will, Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar Bond. With these 3 you gain a familiar equal to HD and you have all the abilities granted to having a familiar.

I thought about this build: Zen Archer 6/Eldritch Guardian 3/Cavalier 1. Taking Improved Familiar Sprite at 9th level.
Yeah you got to lose your LN status and go CN but hey its Fifty Shades of Zen Sprite up in here anyway.

Feats that are taken and shared with your Sprite are:
Weapon Focus Comp. Longbow, Weapon Specialization Comp. Longbow,
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Point Blank Master, Perfect Strike, Improved Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot and the Cavalier's Target of Opportunity.

Other feats you need to blow to make it work are Iron Will, Familiar Bond, Improved Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar.

What you get is a Tinkerbell who can fly, turn into medium size, spell like abilities and has all your combat feats as long as she stays within 30ft. I suggest just leaving her Diminutive size and stay in your square so she keeps her DEX bonus and size mod to hit with her bow. At 9th level her BAB is +7, +4 size bonus and +3 DEX.

With Weapon Focus & Point Blank/Deadly Aim/Rapid Shot her attack bonus is +12 within 30ft. Doing 1d2+6 damage. Not including spending money on magic items for your new girlfriend though, like a dex/str enchanted gear, magic bow, armor etc...

Cool part is the Target of Opportunity giving you a free shot every round if she can make a ranged attack hit. She gets one too.

You could do the same with Brownie/Quasit/Imp/Consular Imp too. Probably have to get them get a proficiency in Longbow though.

This book is pretty cool and I recommend you go out and pick it up.


To add to your plan, both weapon and armour proficiency are listed as feats with the combat tag :-)


'Shares combat feats', style feats are combat, right? Maybe you could do something with a multiclass into MoMS monk/mantis style (for stunning fist from both) or monk of the four winds/marid style (for cold damage from both).

Edit : to be clear, that's another idea from eldritch guardian, not really compatible with your first.


Yeah, most of the Style feats (and teamwork feats!) are combat feats. An Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior/Martial Master with a dip into brawler/Monk can mess things up and sounds very flexible.

Just saying, a Nycar (or any tiny familiar really) gets +11 STR just from transforming at lvl 3. And has 13 to start. With 24 STR, it puts raging barbarians to shame (though you do have to be level 7 to get a nycar with improved familiar). And then the sorcerer casts form of the dragon on him...

Eldritch Scion can get a bloodline familiar at level 1; so finally that archetype isn't entirely terrible. In general, a familiar for the level 1 power is a very good trade up for almost all bloodlines, be it sorcerer, bloodrager or scion.

Beast Blade Magus with a Valet familiar can pile on the AoOs like something crazy, especially if the familiar can cast cantrips (tho it does take like 11 levels).

The school familiars are pretty great. Divination school familiar is especially amazing.


Wow just thought of something at work when guys mentioned teamwork.

Swap out Zen Archer for a Hunter or Sacred Huntsmaster-Inquisitor and you have a familiar with all your combat feats and an animal companion with all your teamwork feats. Rediculous number of attacks with right feats.


The only problem I can find on familiars is that their To Hit bonuses suck. If you pick one as a full bab type PC then they get a bit better. If you go full bab and pick a Mauler arch on the familiar then they might have as good a chance as you to hit.

If however you're like me and are trying to play a spellcaster with a familiar you kind of hit a wall on To Hit bonuses. Is there any way in the Folio to boost the To Hit of familiars other than Mauler?


Sorcerers don't really. Wizards get a soul bound familiar that gets BAB like a different class.

Grand Lodge

Can't wait to get my hands on this. I've got a Skald build that's been working towards a combat familiar, and this sounds like a lot of potential.

The basic idea there is using Amplified Rage with the familiar (and Skald's Vigor for mad Fast Healing.) Being able to get a medium sized tumor familiar out of the box will be quite handy, although it'll probably need some tweaking since I was relying on Valet to share Teamwork feats.

Scarab Sages

Mauler Archetype on a psuedodragon as a small character. You have flying medium sized dragon mount. You can do it with any flying familiar, but the dragon is just cool.


And you can do it as a medium character with undersized mount.


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You can do it as a medium character without undersized mount. The only issues are weight and ride skill bonus.

"Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you."

"If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks."


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Imbicatus wrote:

Mauler Archetype on a psuedodragon as a small character. You have flying medium sized dragon mount. You can do it with any flying familiar, but the dragon is just cool.

Kobold Adept 5/Warrior 4 with a Pseudodragon (Mauler arch)

Feats: Boon Companion, Evolved Familiar: improved damage (sting), Furious Focus, Improved Familiar, Power Attack

With the Mauler you now have a pseudodragon that grows into a Medium mount with a 21 Str and a BAB +8. Swap the dragon's base feat for Familiar Focus and then have the kobold cast Bull's Str before the fight; now the dragon has a 25 Str. It makes a single Melee sting +15 (1d6+13) which carries a DC 14 Sleep effect in it. Meanwhile the Kobold on the dragon's back makes either a 5d4+5 (DC 14) Burning Hands spell attack or a single Melee +1 lance +10 (1d6+8; x2 on a charge) or a ranged +1 sling +10 (1d3 +4)

This build is a CR 6 monster. Also if you give the kobold Use Magic Device w/9 ranks and give it access to x2 scrolls ea of Mage Armor and Shield, both the kobold and mount could potentially be rocking a +10 AC prior to the beginning of the fight. That would be a VERY interesting fight...


There's also a feat in the folio for any creature with Mauler archetype to gain 2 hit points per level as well.

Does the Spirits Gift feat work with familiar?
Edit: the gift feat does work!

Grand Lodge

LoneKnave wrote:

Yeah, most of the Style feats (and teamwork feats!) are combat feats. An Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior/Martial Master with a dip into brawler/Monk can mess things up and sounds very flexible.

Just saying, a Nycar (or any tiny familiar really) gets +11 STR just from transforming at lvl 3. And has 13 to start. With 24 STR, it puts raging barbarians to shame (though you do have to be level 7 to get a nycar with improved familiar). And then the sorcerer casts form of the dragon on him...

Eldritch Scion can get a bloodline familiar at level 1; so finally that archetype isn't entirely terrible. In general, a familiar for the level 1 power is a very good trade up for almost all bloodlines, be it sorcerer, bloodrager or scion.

Beast Blade Magus with a Valet familiar can pile on the AoOs like something crazy, especially if the familiar can cast cantrips (tho it does take like 11 levels).

The school familiars are pretty great. Divination school familiar is especially amazing.

How does a tiny familiar get +11 Str? All I see in the polymorph section is +4 for tiny creatures.


Tiny to small is +4, then another +4 for small to medium. Then you get +2 from the effect and +1 for every 2 levels. So, a total of 11 at level 3.


I'm fairly certain there is no actual str gain from going small -> medium via polymorph spells/effects.

Edit: But via the Monster Advancement rules, one does gain extra strength. Interesting!

Grand Lodge

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Unless there are specific rules for it in the archetype, you don't normally get +4 str for going from small->medium with a polymorph effect. You just get +4 for tiny->small, and then apply the effects of the spell (which sounds like another +2 here, +1 innate from the archetype.)

Scarab Sages Contributor

Well, it doesn't outright SAY it, but it implies it heavily...

Familiar Folio wrote:
Battle Form (Su): At 3rd level, a mauler gains the ability to transform into a larger, more ferocious form and back at will. In battle form, the mauler’s size becomes Medium and the mauler gains a +2 bonus to Strength (this stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size). This ability replaces deliver touch spells.

This is an interesting development, and could have ramifications elsewhere.

All I know is that Nycars just became the coolest thing ever, especially with the bloodline familiar option to give them wings.

That's a whopping 26 str at level 7. Dang, son.


And then you Improved Share spells Form of the Dragon, maybe Raging Blood, and the barbarian goes crying to the corner.


Mark Hoover wrote:

The only problem I can find on familiars is that their To Hit bonuses suck. If you pick one as a full bab type PC then they get a bit better. If you go full bab and pick a Mauler arch on the familiar then they might have as good a chance as you to hit.

If however you're like me and are trying to play a spellcaster with a familiar you kind of hit a wall on To Hit bonuses. Is there any way in the Folio to boost the To Hit of familiars other than Mauler?

There's a wizard archetype centered around binding the soul of a loved one into an animal to save the loved one from death and create a familiar. The familiar has the base attack bonus and saves of the loved one's favored class. If he or she died before the campaign starts, you get to pick the class. Pick ranger or paladin and your familiar will have full BAB.


Really keen to get my hands on this PDF.


I'm not quite sure, but since the Mauler Familiar Archetype replaces "speak with animals" and "speak with master", Improved Familiars do not qualify for the Mauler Archetype;

Improved Familiar feat wrote:

This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.

Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below).

Benefit: When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed here are also available to you. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).

Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature's type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their Kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

My issue with this is that Improved Familiar requires an arcane caster level... which you won't have, will you?

Scarab Sages

cartmanbeck wrote:
My issue with this is that Improved Familiar requires an arcane caster level... which you won't have, will you?

Yet another use for racial/trait based SLAs.

Silver Crusade

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We seriously need an answer on if different 'kinds' of familiars can be owned by the same character, and if so, if taking a feat for familiars effects all of them. It might just affect familiars that are 'actual' familiars, unlike the Homunculus and Tumor Familiar, although from everything I've seen, Tumor Familiars are treated like normal familiars for most things.

Because Homunculist can get a Homunculus familiar as a class feature (that gets some nice bonuses), a tumor familiar, AND a regular familiar with either Eldritch Heritage or Familiar Bond. Even with just the Homunculus, thanks to the rules for increasing the stats of constructs make them INTENSE MONSTERS, especially adding in the evolutions you can get for them, making it too hype.

I'd love to make a 3x familiar build, but I might post a very nice Homunculist build later.

Liberty's Edge

Imbicatus wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
My issue with this is that Improved Familiar requires an arcane caster level... which you won't have, will you?
Yet another use for racial/trait based SLAs.

Yet another reason for that loophole/decision to be overturned.

Scarab Sages

Fomsie wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
My issue with this is that Improved Familiar requires an arcane caster level... which you won't have, will you?
Yet another use for racial/trait based SLAs.
Yet another reason for that loophole/decision to be overturned.

I disagree. It makes sense for a magical race such as gnomes to be able to more effectively channel minor magics to strengthen a bond with an improved familiar.


Lessah wrote:

I'm fairly certain there is no actual str gain from going small -> medium via polymorph spells/effects.

Edit: But via the Monster Advancement rules, one does gain extra strength. Interesting!

Familar Folio wrote:
In battle form, the mauler's size becomes Medium and the mauler gains a +2 bonus to Strength (this stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size).

In this case there is.


avr wrote:
Lessah wrote:

I'm fairly certain there is no actual str gain from going small -> medium via polymorph spells/effects.

Edit: But via the Monster Advancement rules, one does gain extra strength. Interesting!

Familar Folio wrote:
In battle form, the mauler's size becomes Medium and the mauler gains a +2 bonus to Strength (this stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size).
In this case there is.

What is the 'normal' size adjustment for increasing in size?

The table that every other shape-changing effect uses (in the polymorph subsection) or the one for "Monster Advancement"?

Both have a +4 gain for going Tiny->Small, but only the later has a bonus for going Small->Medium (otherwise Alter Self casting Gnomes would be hilarious!).

The way I see it, it is not clear which one is implied.

If it turns out to be the later, I'm totally up for a Fox familiar + halfling master - and as a bonus, I would never have to bother about what the fox say ... : )

Silver Crusade

Lessah wrote:

What is the 'normal' size adjustment for increasing in size?

The table that every other shape-changing effect uses (in the polymorph subsection) or the one for "Monster Advancement"?

Both have a +4 gain for going Tiny->Small, but only the later has a bonus for going Small->Medium (otherwise Alter Self casting Gnomes would be hilarious!).

The way I see it, it is not clear which one is implied.

If it turns out to be the later, I'm totally up for a Fox familiar + halfling master - and as a bonus, I would never have to bother about what the fox say ... : )

The text here in the PFSRD states

Quote:
* Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size.

Presumably, this means that you have to apply both Tiny to Small, and then Small to Medium in adjustments, which is a net change of +8 str, -4 dex, +2 con. It makes some options a lot better than others, that's for sure.

And Alter Self states clearly the stat adjustments for what it does, although it is amusing that technically halfing turning into a gnome does still get +2 dex.


Indeed. And those rules are form the Monster Advancement table. Which are typically used when one mucks about by adding HD and creating new monsters.

Here are the other table I was talking about. Notice that this one does not give extra anything for the Small -> Medium gap. This table is typically used when a creature assumes a new size in-game by the use of magic or special powers.

(This means that an Ogre casting Alter Self into a Gnome would gain +4 Dex (2 from the spell and 2 from the size adjustment), -4 Str and -2 Con (both from the size adjustment.)

All effects and spells that I know of in Pathfinder (prior to this one) that sets a creatures size to a specific size (ie Beast Shape, the Change Shape SU ability) uses the second table, if the user is not already Small or Medium sized to start with.

All effects that increases a creatures size by a specific number of size categories (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) specifies the stat gain, regardless of the original size.

Nothing in game that I can think of uses the first table, except during Monster Creation.

That is the source of my confusion - is this "normal way" really the table that nothing ingame (nothing "normal") uses?


Lessah wrote:

Indeed. And those rules are form the Monster Advancement table. Which are typically used when one mucks about by adding HD and creating new monsters.

Here are the other table I was talking about. Notice that this one does not give extra anything for the Small -> Medium gap. This table is typically used when a creature assumes a new size in-game by the use of magic or special powers.

(This means that an Ogre casting Alter Self into a Gnome would gain +4 Dex (2 from the spell and 2 from the size adjustment), -4 Str and -2 Con (both from the size adjustment.)

All effects and spells that I know of in Pathfinder (prior to this one) that sets a creatures size to a specific size (ie Beast Shape, the Change Shape SU ability) uses the second table, if the user is not already Small or Medium sized to start with.

All effects that increases a creatures size by a specific number of size categories (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) specifies the stat gain, regardless of the original size.

Nothing in game that I can think of uses the first table, except during Monster Creation.

That is the source of my confusion - is this "normal way" really the table that nothing ingame (nothing "normal") uses?

I'd probably go with the monster advancement rules. The mauler archetype's battle form (su) doesn't list a spell that it's replicating a polymorph effect, like a druid's wild shape = beast shape, or lycanthrope's change shape = polymorph as per Universal Monster Rules, etc.

Designer

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Lessah wrote:

Indeed. And those rules are form the Monster Advancement table. Which are typically used when one mucks about by adding HD and creating new monsters.

Here are the other table I was talking about. Notice that this one does not give extra anything for the Small -> Medium gap. This table is typically used when a creature assumes a new size in-game by the use of magic or special powers.

(This means that an Ogre casting Alter Self into a Gnome would gain +4 Dex (2 from the spell and 2 from the size adjustment), -4 Str and -2 Con (both from the size adjustment.)

All effects and spells that I know of in Pathfinder (prior to this one) that sets a creatures size to a specific size (ie Beast Shape, the Change Shape SU ability) uses the second table, if the user is not already Small or Medium sized to start with.

All effects that increases a creatures size by a specific number of size categories (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) specifies the stat gain, regardless of the original size.

Nothing in game that I can think of uses the first table, except during Monster Creation.

That is the source of my confusion - is this "normal way" really the table that nothing ingame (nothing "normal") uses?

Normal is shape-changing effects, polymorph subschool section. You get nothing for going from Small to Medium. +7 at level 3. That effect should have also said it was a polymorph effect. And missing descriptors are a pet peeve of mine, I'm so ashamed!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lessah wrote:

Indeed. And those rules are form the Monster Advancement table. Which are typically used when one mucks about by adding HD and creating new monsters.

Here are the other table I was talking about. Notice that this one does not give extra anything for the Small -> Medium gap. This table is typically used when a creature assumes a new size in-game by the use of magic or special powers.

(This means that an Ogre casting Alter Self into a Gnome would gain +4 Dex (2 from the spell and 2 from the size adjustment), -4 Str and -2 Con (both from the size adjustment.)

All effects and spells that I know of in Pathfinder (prior to this one) that sets a creatures size to a specific size (ie Beast Shape, the Change Shape SU ability) uses the second table, if the user is not already Small or Medium sized to start with.

All effects that increases a creatures size by a specific number of size categories (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) specifies the stat gain, regardless of the original size.

Nothing in game that I can think of uses the first table, except during Monster Creation.

That is the source of my confusion - is this "normal way" really the table that nothing ingame (nothing "normal") uses?

Normal is shape-changing effects, polymorph subschool section. You get nothing for going from Small to Medium. +7 at level 3. That effect should have also said it was a polymorph effect. And missing descriptors are a pet peeve of mine, I'm so ashamed!

Ah well there's that then. I stand corrected.


Thanks for the clarification Mark!

Grand Lodge

Finally got my PDF copy, and looking at some options.

A Chosen One Oradin with a Protector familiar could be a beast of a healer. Life Link->Shield Other onto the familiar, with the potential for double-LoH on the pally (one from the pally, and a second from the familiar for 2 daily uses.)

I want to see a Bloodrager/Eldritch Guardian build based around Sympathetic Rage/Amplified Rage on a Mauler.

Spirit Binder has all kinds of cool potential.

Contributor

Spirit Binder is fantastic.

Take a mauler familiar and choose the paladin as its favored class. It gets BAB equal to your level, plus good Fortitude and Will saves. Use your bonus feats to grant it Arcane Strike (1st), Riving Strike (5th), Power Attack (10th), Furious Focus (15th), and one additional feat of your choice at 20th. Your familiar can meet Arcane Strike's caster level prerequisite if you (the master) take Evolved Familiar and select basic magic as your familiar's evolution.

Riving Strike will cause whatever your familiar attacks while Arcane Strike is active to take a –2 penalty on saves against spells, plus Arcane Strike will give it up to +5 to hit and damage. Isn't that convenient for you, Mr. Arcane Caster?

If you want, you could also take the idealize arcane discovery, which makes any enhancement bonuses you give from your spells increase by +2 (or +4 when you're 20th level). Enter transformation. Thanks to share spells, you can cast this on your familiar. The natural armor bonus and BAB increase won't apply to it, but you CAN grant it a +6 enhancement bonus to all of its physical ability scores. +8 when you're 20th level.

I'm not sure if you can take an improved familiar that's also a mauler (improved familiars don't get the speak with animals ability), but if you could then you could pick something like a sprite or brownie, which can wield weapons ....


Doesn't Arcane Strike only grant +1 damage, plus an additional +1 for every 5 CL? Where does the bonus to hit come from?

There's lots of obvious applications for mauler. Lets look at some other archetypes.

Scarab Sages

Alexander Augunas wrote:


I'm not sure if you can take an improved familiar that's also a mauler (improved familiars don't get the speak with animals ability), but if you could then you could pick something like a sprite or brownie, which can wield weapons ....

A monkey has hands...


Kobold Adept 2/warrior 4 with UMD pumped up and a wand of Alter Self. Said guy has a goat mauler. Suddenly he's riding his goatfolk minion into battle as it wields a greataxe alongside it's gore attack...

OMG this is freaking awesome! But seriously, what about the OTHER familiar archetypes...


Mark Hoover wrote:

Doesn't Arcane Strike only grant +1 damage, plus an additional +1 for every 5 CL? Where does the bonus to hit come from?

There's lots of obvious applications for mauler. Lets look at some other archetypes.

Arcane Strike is +1/5 levels to hit AND damage.

Silver Crusade

Fourshadow wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:

Doesn't Arcane Strike only grant +1 damage, plus an additional +1 for every 5 CL? Where does the bonus to hit come from?

There's lots of obvious applications for mauler. Lets look at some other archetypes.

Arcane Strike is +1/5 levels to hit AND damage.

Nope, just damage.


N. Jolly wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:

Doesn't Arcane Strike only grant +1 damage, plus an additional +1 for every 5 CL? Where does the bonus to hit come from?

There's lots of obvious applications for mauler. Lets look at some other archetypes.

Arcane Strike is +1/5 levels to hit AND damage.
Nope, just damage.

My memory just gets worse and worse...yikes.

Grand Lodge

Figment is pretty solid for a Shaman to avoid the "lose your spellbook" Witch effect.


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Sage archetype with the Strength patron familiar has a similar effect to Mauler actually.

Sovereign Court

looking at this book now... lots of stuff! it will take me a while to digest...

Mark Seifter: feel free to share recommendations on the best or coolest combos you had in mind when you and fellow authors/designers created this amazing tome!


What's the best rogue build you can assemble with a familiar?

Scarab Sages

Carnavilist with the Mauler archetype for a pure rogue.

Carnivalist 2 / anything x with multiclassing.


It's best if that "anything" has SA tho. Vivisectionist or Slayer could be nice. Carnivalist 2/Vivsectionist with a tumor familiar is kinda hilarious.

Scarab Sages

I'm pretty sure vivisectionist will use the carnivalist's lower SA advancement as vivisectionist explicitly uses "rogue sneak attack advancement".

I think a multiclass monster like Carnivalist 2/Snakebite Striker 1/Slayer x would work better.

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