Is it possible to build a good kineticist with Overwhelming Soul archetype? Because he lost CON for main stat for CHA( and cha is one of the worst in the game), and he loses also burn... I can't really understand what's the point about this archetype, maybe it exists for making undeads kineticists.
Undead Kineticists work even when unarchetyped, as per this:
No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
The main purpose was to allow undead, and other CON-less, races to be kineticists. But it also means you can do a decent gestalt character with any CHA caster class though.
Undead Kineticists work even when unarchetyped, as per this:
No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
We are not necessarily questioning th switch from con to cha... it is the burn. I half view it as a reaffirmation for them that they use cha.
You can't take burn without being able to take nonlethal damage. Ergo, an archetype is far more useful than a bunch of cut off powers for them.
Otherwise, it is more for people turned off entirely by the burn system. It can be hard to play kineticist without using burn, since it also ties into your attack booster. So this is the alternative.
Undead Kineticists work even when unarchetyped, as per this:
No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
Actually they do not work at all.
Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
This archetype may be there for those who hated the burn mechanic during the playtest.
why people hate burn? How can you build a good kineticist withouth burn?
My guess is people hate burn because it's a terrible mechanic designed to punish anyone daring to pick the class.
My guess is people hate burn because it's a terrible mechanic designed to punish anyone daring to pick the class.
yes but playing withouth burn you will have problem with damages and utility.
This archetype may be there for those who hated the burn mechanic during the playtest.
I know I hate burn and also hate this archetype. I liked Kineticists as con based characters so making removing burn tied to a stat change means it lost it's appeal for me. Maybe one of these days they'll make an archetype that removes burn and doesn't rob them of con. Until then, the solution is just as bad as the problem IMO.
why people hate burn? How can you build a good kineticist withouth burn?This archetype may be there for those who hated the burn mechanic during the playtest.
Because it's a god awful mechanic that requires you to punch yourself in the face to power up? And if you don't use it you can't activate a majority of your abilities? Without Elemental Overflow in particular, you're pretty sub-par and that requires burn to activate.
why people hate burn? How can you build a good kineticist withouth burn?This archetype may be there for those who hated the burn mechanic during the playtest.
It is part of the class's high risk, high reward. You get to use con as your 'casting stat', but higher power moves will basically cut up your boosted HP.
This archetype removes that- the stat is now the more useless CHA and you can't burn, but they give you boosts to attack/damage so you can replace teh overflow bonus you lost.
Also, I will note that kineticists obviously don't burn every round. Your bread and butter comes from what you can do with infusion specialization and gather power.
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My guess is people hate burn because it's a terrible mechanic designed to punish anyone daring to pick the class.No, it's not. Burn is quite manageable and does not hurt your overall survivablity at all.
"manageable" and "punish"ing aren't exclusive concepts. It can be terrible, punishing AND manageable... Just because I can make it suck less doesn't mean it doesn't, in fact, suck.
It is part of the class's high risk, high reward. You get to use con as your 'casting stat', but higher power moves will basically cut up your boosted HP.
This archetype removes that- the stat is now the more useless CHA and you can't burn, but they give you boosts to attack/damage so you can replace teh overflow bonus you lost.
Also, I will note that kineticists obviously don't burn every round. Your bread and butter comes from what you can do with infusion specialization and gather power.
I don't even think its high risk, high reward most of the time. With just a little burn. Other than the small amount of burn to boost your defense and trigger your EO, you don't need to accept any burn throughout the day for 90% of fights/situations. For those occasional big fights, then its appropriate to nova up and take some burn but you're starting at Barb level HP so its not like you're really in any danger of getting instant KO. And when you do finally drop most of the time you're just unconscious and not bleeding out because of the NL damage.
My last session, at level 9 so rocket tag is approaching fast, I took a full attack from an appropriate CR large griffon/bird/thing and was still standing. What blaster casters would be able to say the same thing?
My guess is people hate burn because it's a terrible mechanic designed to punish anyone daring to pick the class.No, it's not. Burn is quite manageable and does not hurt your overall survivablity at all.
Depending on your element, Burn can actually improve your survivability. Take a look.
I acknowledge it probably won't change any minds here, but this thread does a solid job of showing that Burn really is your friend as a Kineticist. Which, incidentally, is why Overwhelming Soul is so terrible for anyone who isn't Undead or a Construct.
You should look at Burn the same way you look at spell slots. You can only do it a limited amount of time every day to be at your fullest potential, you have to make the same decisions that other casters do. But instead of "Should I use a spell here" It's "Should I use a burn here"
You should look at Burn the same way you look at spell slots. You can only do it a limited amount of time every day to be at your fullest potential, you have to make the same decisions that other casters do. But instead of "Should I use a spell here" It's "Should I use a burn here"
And on top of that, basic blasting is burn free so you can always do that without taking burn. Plus Gather Power lets you negate some burn each round anyways.
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Gather Power, Infusion Specialization, Internal Buffer, Supercharge, and Metakinetic Master all combine to give you several ways of ignoring burn cost.
You really only need to take enough burn to max your elemental overflow. Anything else should be a nova panic button when you need to unload everything NOW.
I don't even think its high risk, high reward most of the time. With just a little burn. Other than the small amount of burn to boost your defense and trigger your EO, you don't need to accept any burn throughout the day for 90% of fights/situations. For those occasional big fights, then its appropriate to nova up and take some burn but you're starting at Barb level HP so its not like you're really in any danger of getting instant KO. And when you do finally drop most of the time you're just unconscious and not bleeding out because of the NL damage.
My last session, at level 9 so rocket tag is approaching fast, I took a full attack from an appropriate CR large griffon/bird/thing and was still standing. What blaster casters would be able to say the same thing?
I suppose 'high cost/high reward' is more appropriate. And yes, even then , you are often VERY sturdy.
I only really put burn into the powerful defenses usually. DR from earth, AC from water, temp HP from aether (which is frankly the lowest cost, since it basically only has half the cost as long as you can wait for the temp hp to refill). Because who wouldn't like DR 6 and +3/+5 on their attack at level 6?
My guess is people hate burn because because they don't understand the value of being able to overload on your resource.
Fixed. It takes a lot of crying and no experience to hate burn. My 9th level Kineticist certainly has never had any problems surviving beyond my other melee characters, but being able to continue dipping into my resource pool when any other class would already be at 0 whatever points has saved a wipe multiple times.
As for the OP, the Overwhelming Soul exists to troll people who didn't understand the burn mechanic. It's pretty worthless, which is just fine considering how good the base Kineticist is.
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Fixed. It takes a lot of crying and no experience to hate burn. My 9th level Kineticist certainly has never had any problems surviving beyond my other melee characters, but being able to continue dipping into my resource pool when any other class would already be at 0 whatever points has saved a wipe multiple times.
As for the OP, the Overwhelming Soul exists to troll people who didn't understand the burn mechanic. It's pretty worthless, which is just fine considering how good the base Kineticist is.
I don't like burn. For a d8 class, it was unnecessary, and I've already gone through great pains to remove it as a factor, especially since one of the biggest reasons behind taking it, boosting one's elemental defense, is so polar in benefit. Sure an aether/earth/water kineticist gets a great benefit from it, but every other elemental defense is lackluster, making it a lopsided mechanic.
I'm happy if it works for other people, but I don't think burn balances having a constitution based class, and did away with it dealing damage in the 'unchained kineticist' rewrite I did.
It takes a lot of crying and no experience to hate burn.
I've tried several Kineticists and continue to loath burn. It's just a sucktastic mechanic IMO and forcing myself to play with it hasn't altered my opinion of it in the least. It's just as awful now as it was when I saw it in the playtest document. So there is no direct correlation between experience and loving/hating burn.
Now I understand that some people like the mechanic but I wish they wouldn't assume that just 'trying it out' will make other love it as much as they seem to. Using it has only confirmed my original feelings on the mechanic and not improved them in any way.
Speaking of burn, the Gambler archetype, in my opinion, makes it really fun to use and risky without feeling like it's punishing you for picking the class.