According to the rules, if you are using unarmed strikes without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you do nonlethal damage. I am aware that you need to exceed the targets maximum hit points to do Lethal damage, but, what about coup de grace?
follow this scenario: a fighter has twenty maximum hit points and ten points of lethal damage. he gets in a fist fight with someone. that person does 11 nonlethal damage, knocking them out. does that person now get to do coup de grace with their fists? the damage is nonlethal, how does that effect the fortitude save against death?
input please.
Core Book - Combat - Standard Actions - Attack
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.
It's generally assumed you can pile on whatever penalties you like to a CDG because it's an auto-hit effect. If a sickened, shaken character (-4 to attack rolls) can CDG, so can a character taking a -4 to do nonlethal.
Push comes to shove, a hard stomp on the neck is a good example of such an attempt.
There is also the fact that nothing in coup de grace says the weapon has to do lethal damage for it to work.
Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace (pronounced "coo day grahs") to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.
It just says you need a helpless opponent and a melee weapon. Non-lethal unarmed strikes work just fine, as do whips and saps. since these all count as melee weapons.
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IMO, I would say you have to hit them unconscious down to to the maximum non-lethal before you can start doing lethal damage; then you start applying lethal damage.
Example:
Bob is level one fighter and has a CON of 14. That gives him 12 hp.
First you hit him for 12 non-lethal, then 14 more to take down his CON.
After that you would start doing lethal damage, so you would have to do 26 more points of damage to kill him.
Ninja'd because too many customers came in between start and finish.
IMO, I would say you have to hit them unconscious down to to the maximum non-lethal before you can start doing lethal damage; then you start applying lethal damage.
Example:
Bob is level one fighter and has a CON of 14. That gives him 12 hp.
First you hit him for 12 non-lethal, then 14 more to take down his CON.
After that you would start doing lethal damage, so you would have to do 26 more points of damage to kill him.Ninja'd because too many customers came in between start and finish.
His con total is not in his hitpoint total, so its
12 points of non lethal
12 points of lethal
14 points of lethal= dead.
We had a hillarious example of how that can happen a while ago. There were some sketchy people hanging out somewhere we were investigating. My foxform kitsune snuck up on one and since he was flat footed, went with an unarmed strike headbut sneak attack to the nuts.
20 and a 20 to confirm, max damage on the sneak dice and dex twice =29ish damage to a 5 hit point first level rogue....
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We had a hillarious example of how that can happen a while ago. There were some sketchy people hanging out somewhere we were investigating. My foxform kitsune snuck up on one and since he was flat footed, went with an unarmed strike headbut sneak attack to the nuts.20 and a 20 to confirm, max damage on the sneak dice and dex twice =29ish damage to a 5 hit point first level rogue....
My son had a similar experience. Using comp. long bow, sleep arrows, and rapid shot, aiming at two different caster class NPCs. Rolled 20 on both (he roll two D20 so it was fun to see two 20s up) and confirmed with a 20 and 19.
Needless to say that it didn't matter that one of the NPCs made the save not to fall asleep as he took them both to well below Con. It was the only attack he made the entire combat.