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So, after a lot of hard adventuring, you've finally managed to track down a djinn who will grant you a wish. You tell the djinn "I wish that wishes never came true."
What happens?
Let's say, for the sake of the thought experiment, that this is one of those old-school all-powerful wishes.
What happens?
The djinn twists it so that the only one who's wishes never came true were your own; or so that the djinni itself could no longer grant wishes (and thus was never summoned by mortals to do so); the wish is ignored as self-defeating; or something along those lines.
In games, no matter the wish source, there were always limits. Either it was a nearby God granting it, the creature or spell couldn't do it, or there were cosmic buffer walls in place to prevent those kinds of shenanigans.
The only time "all-powerful" wishes come to pass is in literature, and even then there are limits; in fact, in the original where the idea came from, the three-wish limit is nowhere to be found, while the greatest thing the the genie did for Aladdin was an unlimited version of what we would cite as fabricate SLA-effect plus a lyre of building effect plus some shape shifting and illusions. Also, I think, rapid travel? But I don't think teleportation - it's been a while. (Also it took place in China and Africa, soooooo...)
Even in Disney's Aladdin, there were limits (no, "more wishes" or "falling in love" or "back from the dead" we're the explicit ones). Given that gods and others demonstrably exist in that setting, there would likely be a way to overturn the wish (if nothing else, by way of miracle). Especially given that, even if you somehow created a paradox after severing all limits from the wish, it's still a CL 10 (at least the efreeti one is; the djinni one could be higher, but I don't know for sure).
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Talk about being careful what you wish for. I wish this party was over already...
Yeah, with such a nebulous phrasing of the wish in question (and with the assumption of this wish being of an earlier edition), I would twist it so that character making this wish was now cursed so that anything the character idly (or through the use of magic) "wishes" would not come true, and that the exact opposite might wind up happening (e.g. such as the above quoted "I wish this party was over already").
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Even ignoring the wish's interaction with itself, it's a huge pile of paradox. You wished that wishes never came true- not just that magic wishes not be granted or some such thing. So now anything wishes something would happen, it can't. Since people wish for many contradictory things, everything is prevented, but since there are people who want that, you can't even just stop everything. Even resolving it by removing all desire would likely be making somebody's wish come true (e.g. "I wish I didn't want so much stuff I can't have"). The tense is fuzzy too, so it would need to apply retroactively, since if a wish ever came true, your wish would not have been granted.
Moral of the story: avoid using absolutes in your wishes like that.
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So, after a lot of hard adventuring, you've finally managed to track down a djinn who will grant you a wish. You tell the djinn "I wish that wishes never came true."
What happens?
I show up and throw a pie in your face.
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So, after a lot of hard adventuring, you've finally managed to track down a djinn who will grant you a wish. You tell the djinn "I wish that wishes never came true."
What happens?
To parahrase the Dragon Shimzon when an over the top wish was asked of him. "That wish is beyond my power to grant."
Never be afraid to say... "No."
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I'd treat it as the "wish" version of the supposed paradox "Everything I say is a lie". Which is not actually a paradox. The opposite of "Everything I say is a lie" is not necessarily "Everything I say is the truth", but can instead be "At least one thing that I say is the truth". So it ceases to be a problem.
In like fashion, "I wish that wishes never came true" need only go so far as to reference itself. Once it gets that far, the wish itself never comes true and some nebulous other thing happens instead. Since "I wish that this wish ultimately does nothing" is one possible other thing that can happen, there is no paradox.
Of course, the nebulous other thing could also be something more far-reaching...
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It would also depend on time relation. The wish doesn't say all wishes ever made and ever will be made, or something similar. It's time dependant which could mean, any wish at that particular time, or any wishes in the future after that wish is made (meaning all prior wishes remain).
In addition, as many have noted, it doesn't not define a breadth, or who it affects, meaning it may only affect the person making the wish itself...
Hence, no wish that person ever makes in the future after that wish, will ever come true.
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As someone who is in a home group that treats Wishes as a nuclear device awaiting the launch codes with the keys already turned, I wholly support the effort to 'lock down' any Wishes in the future.
However, they DO serve an important narrative and character-developmental purpose, so they should not be discarded out of hands.
Or in the worst-case situation, since wishes 'never' come true, the wishing person's parents never wish to have a child, thus the evoker ceases to exist and therefore the wish ceases to exist. Continuity resolved, and it serves as an out-of-the-box cautionary tale.
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in the worst-case situation, since wishes 'never' come true, the wishing person's parents never wish to have a child, thus the evoker ceases to exist and therefore the wish ceases to exist. Continuity resolved, and it serves as an out-of-the-box cautionary tale.
If this were to ever happen in a game, I can just see the Hate heaped upon the DM who dared to punish a player in such a fashion...
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Or in the worst-case situation, since wishes 'never' come true, the wishing person's parents never wish to have a child, thus the evoker ceases to exist and therefore the wish ceases to exist. Continuity resolved, and it serves as an out-of-the-box cautionary tale.
But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist...
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But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing the character to cease to exist. But if the wish ceases to exist, then that means that the character's parents can then wish to have a child, then the child will become the character who wishes that wishes never came true. This would the cause the parents to never wish to have a child, causing...
I like you. ^^ Do you want to join my church?
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"You can curse one person per wish to have all their wishes backfire. I can't grant that one to effect you till you make all your wishes."
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Maybe the wish/limited wish spells henceforth function merely as the alter reality Illusionist spell from 1st Edition.
Or maybe they henceforth function as WHITE WOLF's concept of "coincidental magic."
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The djinn points out that all wishes are singular and are subsequently not affected.
From a serious point of view, that might be the best explanation for why there are no wishes in this universe.
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Let's say, for the sake of the thought experiment, that this is one of those old-school all-powerful wishes.
What happens?
What do you want to happen? What's the point of this thread?
It's a fictional game where we get to determine what the rules are, so the result could be anything. If I'm the DM, I immediately throw out anything that is uninteresting to our version of play.
There's a game called Ryuutama and it has a Wish-style spell. Per the rules of the spell, every player gets to write a wish down and hand it to the GM. The GM then gets to pick one to come true, or throw them all out if they don't like them. So as a player, you have to not only consider your own needs/desire, but those of the GM if you want them to pick your wish.
In a game I'm running, I gave the players a "scroll" of wish. I say "scroll" because when you cast it, it's not actually expended, it's on a clay tablet and can be cast as many times as you want. It does have a slight change to the verbal and somatic component though. The Wish spell requires 5 people to all make the exact same wish at the same time and conclude by killing themselves (no roll required and you must actually die). All participants must do so of their own free will and any deviation ruins the spell. So far my players have declined to use it.
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What do you want to happen? What's the point of this thread?Let's say, for the sake of the thought experiment, that this is one of those old-school all-powerful wishes.
What happens?
I took a philosophy class one time in college.
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It creates two worlds, one with the paradox in an endless loop and the other where the Wish has no effect. Which one do you want to play next session?
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I took a philosophy class one time in college.What do you want to happen? What's the point of this thread?Let's say, for the sake of the thought experiment, that this is one of those old-school all-powerful wishes.
What happens?
In other words some philosopher made that wish, and all magical creatures retreated from reality, to a realm they created, and left us here. Don't feel bad, that was not the only reason.
Any devs reading this topic? How do you like my suggestion that only one person per wish can be cursed to not be able to wish or have all wishes backfire. Is it FAQ worthy?
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There's a game called Ryuutama and it has a Wish-style spell. Per the rules of the spell, every player gets to write a wish down and hand it to the GM. The GM then gets to pick one to come true, or throw them all out if they don't like them. So as a player, you have to not only consider your own needs/desire, but those of the GM if you want them to pick your wish.
So the Apples to Apples version of wish.
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So the Apples to Apples version of wish.
There's a game called Ryuutama and it has a Wish-style spell. Per the rules of the spell, every player gets to write a wish down and hand it to the GM. The GM then gets to pick one to come true, or throw them all out if they don't like them. So as a player, you have to not only consider your own needs/desire, but those of the GM if you want them to pick your wish.
Wishes Against Humanity?
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Cards against humanity....
I win!
Maybe. What game are you playing.
Some crazy fisherman who loved castanets.
Ohhhh, Cast A Nets! I just got that one! :)
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Character's gender is switched, all their class levels are replaced with Commoner, and all their possessions are second hand junk. Doesn't nearly every parent with the best for their children as well as the common practice of wishing for a child of a specific gender?
Edit: And the character is instantly living in the root cellar of their parent's home.
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What happens?
Well, the djinn gets to interpret anything left as ambiguous, and it wasn't specified that wishes never have been granted, so first off, he doesn't apply the effect to the past.
Second, he reasons that even through the granting has yet to be performed, the wish itself was made in the past -- the past being any point earlier than "right this second."
If the effect of the wish doesn't apply to the past, including the immediate past when the wish was made, then the wish can be granted without violating its own provisions. In practical terms, then, the wish has become "No wishes after this one will be granted."
Next comes the fact that any wish is limited in power and scope; you can't just wish the universe out of existence. The djinn decides that if perception is reality, the current wish can cover not granting any future wish that this individual could ever become aware of. (The logic there is admittedly shaky at best, but at this point the djinn can either make every effort to accommodate the person, or just say "Nope, can't do it" -- and what fun is that?)
Okay, there are any number of sources of wishes in the world, and not only can our djinn not prevent those wishes from being granted, he can't control the spread of information from all those possible sources. So his only alternative is to keep the information from reaching this person.
So to wrap it all up, the djinn summons a daemon, who kills the person making the wish and consumes his soul, destroying it utterly.
Alternatively the djinn rubs their hands together eagerly.
"DONE!" they intone with majestic splendor. "THANK YOU FOR FREEING ME FROM THIS CURSE I'VE BEEN UNDER FOR ALL THESE CENTURIES! It's only fitting to reward you, o sagely one, with the most wonderful of gifts."
...and now the wisher is a djinn, who must now wait for someone *else* to wish that wishes never come true to be freed from their restraints...
Alternatively the djinn rubs their hands together eagerly.
"DONE!" they intone with majestic splendor. "THANK YOU FOR FREEING ME FROM THIS CURSE I'VE BEEN UNDER FOR ALL THESE CENTURIES! It's only fitting to reward you, o sagely one, with the most wonderful of gifts."
...and now the wisher is a djinn, who must now wait for someone *else* to wish that wishes never come true to be freed from their restraints...
Going for the old "Reverse Jafar" answer I see.
Well played.