I'm putting together a character for convention season. He needs to be PFS legal. I'll be starting the character at level 3 or 4 due to GM credit. I'm looking to play a bard with a one level dip into Gunslinger(Mysterious Stranger) and Swashbuckler(Inspired Blade). I've never played a bard before or a gunslinger, so I could use a little help. I plan on focusing on Intimidation and the spell Blistering Invective. I'll deal damage with a pistol and wield a rapier as a last resort.
I know this isn't a perfectly optimized build, but I'm looking for help finding the major holes I've overlooked.
My Build So Far:
Race: Halfling with the Driven Worker & Skulker alternate racial traits.
Traits: Larger than Life & ????????? Not sure what my second trait should be. Is there a pathfinder legal trait that gives a +2 to perform?
Str: 7 (5)
Dex: 14 (16)
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 18 (20)
1 Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) Point Blank Shot
2 Bard (Sound Striker & Lotus Geisha)
3 Bard ????? Not sure what feat.
4 Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) Free Weapon finesse with a rapier and free weapon focus. Six points of panache that can be added to the grit pool for a total of 11.
5 Bard for the rest of the way.
What feats, traits and gear should I be looking at? Tactics or sneaky tricks I need to know? Any constructive advice is welcome.
If you're going to be shooting things at all it'd be hard not to get Precise Shot.
There's a trait - Inner Beauty - which gives +4 to Perform 1/day. Or there's any number of traits which have interesting effects with intimidate.
Your right, precise shot is pretty important, but how does it compare to other shooting feats like rapid reload and rapid shot? Gunfire attacks at close range are against touch AC, right? So maybe I can get away with taking a penalty shooting into melee. Maybe? It looks like it works on paper, but not sure about how it actually works in practice.
What interesting intimidate traits did you find? I found Larger Than Life, that makes the character count as one size catagory larger when intimidating as long as he is holding a gun. Most of the other traits I found gave bonuses directly to intimidate rolls. I'll be using versatile performance so I don't think those will help.
How about Swash'slinger Singer?
Oh, you meant build, whoops :D
Why mot the musketeer swashbuckler, then bard the rest of the way?
you'd get firearms proficiency, weapon finesse with the rapier, and you'd keep the quick clear deed.
You'll want rapid reload as well. Also, at least one point in craft alchemy.
Picaroon is what I should have said, since it's pistols.
I went with Mysterious Stranger because it gets charisma to damage at first level. It takes a grit point and a swift action, but it greatly increases the potential damage output.
There is a reference in the rules that grit, panache, and luck points get pooled together into one big pool. That is part of what made taking both gunslinger and swashbucker appealing. This works, right?
The picaroon is an intriguing option for the TWF sword and pistol action, but it doesn't get quick clear until 3rd level. I don't think I want to dip that deap.
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The only thing I can find right now is this bit in the swashbuckler:
For the purposes of feat prerequisites, a character with the panache class feature satisfies the prerequisites as if she were a grit user, and vice versa. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed's level requirement. For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain panache points in place of grit points, and vice versa.
That suggests that you have separate pools but that you can spend from all pools.
I'm just a bit skeptical because usually you don't get to double-apply ability scores for these kinds of things.
Yep. That's what I was thinking of. There is also a part that references luck pool also being interchangeable. It appears that they are not technically pooled together, but can be drawn on as if they were. I can see situations where that would matter.
I was just throwing options out there, I figured that's the reason you were going for, which charisma to damage is a big gain, but losing quick clear can be a big loss, make sure to take mending as a cantrip so you can remove the broken condition from your guns in 10 minutes instead of an hour.
You could still take the musketeer as your swashbuckler archetype to get the deed back, unless you really want that one extra panache and free weapon focus.
Grit and Panache: The gunslinger's grit and the swashbuckler's panache represent two paths to gain access to the same heroic pool. Characters with both grit and panache class features combine the two resources into a larger pool of both grit points and panache points.
this says to me that you are applying charisma to grit and charisma to panache, but they are the same points so you combine them, effectively applying charisma twice to the pool, but only once to each class feature.
I don't believe the Musketeer is PFS legal. Quick clear is a pretty significant loss. I'm hoping to mitigate it by having a back up weapon or two. I'll also be busy casting spells and doing bardic performance, so hopefully I'll be able to contribute to the team no matter what.
I'm thinking of grabbing a wand of Blistering Invective as soon as I can. It's essentially dazzling display without taking the feat, with a bunch of extra fun thrown in. And it's a standard action instead of a full round action.
I'll definitely take mend. That's a good idea. It usually isn't a big deal to pause for ten minutes, but an hour could get a bit dicey.
I love blistering invective on my bard, you'll get good mileage out of it, unless they don't speak your language.
So, I'm starting off at level 1 with Point Blank Shot. At levels 3,5,and 7 I will most likely be adding Rapid Shot, Precise Strike, and Rapid Reload. Any suggestions on the order I take them in? Are there any other feats I should be trying to squeeze in early on? How about more bard based feats? Am I seriously hurting myself by not grabbing any of those?
Deadly aim is pretty important as well.
Bards can be set up how you want, so if your goal is to shoot stuff and cast blistering invective, then get shooting feats, and maybe an intimidate boosting feat.
As for bard feats I love lingering performance. It lets the benefit of your performance carry on after the performance has ended, which works really well with the spell saving finale, which I also highly recommend. As a combat bard the spell allegro will be huge for you once you have level two spells also.
Obviously rapid reload comes before rapid shot. Unloaded pistols can't fire that second time.
I'm not into PFS but I understand that close-up fights where you're in melee instantly are pretty common. If that's so then precise shot (not strike) - rapid reload - rapid shot ia the way to go. If that's not true, maybe mobility is more of an issue, then you could shift precise shot down the line.
If in PFS you can't use traits that specify Intimidate when using Versatile Performance that does cut off a lot of them, but Omen, Mock Scrapper and Memorable should still work.
How do you do anything with a 5 str? Hard to even carry a gun with ammo without dropping to med/heavy and that kills your dex fast. And I do not see getting Charisma Bonus twice. Yeah, it's a cheesy way to get the same effect from two pools, but it is still the same effect and same bonus types still don't stack.
Vote for Precise, Reload and then Rapid Shot also, just so you can get enough loading speed to use the Rapid Shot.
How do you do anything with a 5 str? Hard to even carry a gun with ammo without dropping to med/heavy and that kills your dex fast.
Clothes, two pistols, a rapier, one bandolier filled with ammo and one bandolier filled with wands, a spell component pouch, and a pathfinder pouch for most everything else, all comes out to slightly more than 8 pounds for a small sized character.
Muleback Cords, a wand of Ant Haul, and a Handy Haversack pretty much take care of any other encumbrance problems as long as you are careful.
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Can you really pool together that much granache that way?
I addressed this in another thread, but here's a link to my post regarding RAW vs RAI on combining pools. Summary, yes, per RAW those archetypes allow doubling up Cha in the pool as far as I can tell.
(Sorry, but I can't easily copy/paste the complete text on this device)
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I'm not very familiar with Gunslingers, but I have built Halfling "intimidators" before. This build doesn't likely synergise perfectly with what you already have, but feel free to use any of it.
Taunt feat - Use Bluff instead of Intimidate to Demoralize (no size penalty from being small)
Enforcer feat - Make a free Demoralize attempt when dealing nonlethal damage (you'll need to waste 1 point in Intimidate as a prereq)
I would then go on to take Weapon Focus (Whip) and Whip Mastery for consistent/reliable nonlethal damage, but for using a firearm, you can simply take...
Bludgeoner feat - take no penalty on attack rolls to deal nonlethal damage with weapons that deal bludgeoning damage (virtually all firearms).
I'd then take levels in Mesmerist, which adds 1/2 my level to Bluff. The Mesmerist is more or less an inverted Bard, designed to debuff enemies, instead of buff allies, which is already what you're going for with Demoralize. Now your demoralize effects are just one of many debuffs your enemies are suffering from with virtually no effort on your part. Plus you're just super good at bluffing, now; a completely unintended side-effect from also being great at demoralizing.
Now you don't need to spend an entire Trait just to negate your size penalty to Intimidate. Instead, you could take Black Powder Fortune (+2 on saves vs curse, fear, and emotion effects - a Psychic caster's best friend), or Black Powder Interjection (1/day regain 1 Grit when interrupting a spell being cast).
Side thought: Precise Shot isn't super important for firearm users, so long as you stay in the first range increment, which targets Touch AC.
So, I was thinking if I picked up a double barrel pistol and rapid shot my combat action economy could go like this:
Round 1: Blistering Invective
Round 2: Shoot Twice
Round 3: Bardic Performance(stadard action)
Load one barrel(move action)
Round 4: Cast a first level spell(standard action)
Load the other barrel(move action)
Round 5: Shoot Twice
Rinse and repeat as needed
Well Cuup, that's just nifty. I'm not sure how much of that I'm actually going to be able to use, but that was a bunch of fun I'm going to have to strongly consider.
At the very least, I think I will take Taunt. I just need to check one thing. If I take a versatile performance that includes bluff, can I use a perform check, in place of the bluff check, in place of the intimidate check?
Also, do you use a masterwork tool to help with the demoralize attempt?
Thanks, I'm happy to help! Those are some pretty good questions. I'll do my best to break them down below:Well Cuup, that's just nifty. I'm not sure how much of that I'm actually going to be able to use, but that was a bunch of fun I'm going to have to strongly consider.
At the very least, I think I will take Taunt. I just need to check one thing. If I take a versatile performance that includes bluff, can I use a perform check, in place of the bluff check, in place of the intimidate check?
Also, do you use a masterwork tool to help with the demoralize attempt?
You can demoralize opponents using Bluff rather than Intimidate (see the Intimidate skill description for details) and take no skill check penalty for being smaller than your target.So Intimidate is simply not part of the equation. Remember, you're not using Bluff to Intimidate, you're using it to Demoralize; a weird distinction to make, but very important to remember when utilizing the Taunt feat; a lot of spells, feats, etc. may grant bonuses specifically to Intimidate, which will no longer help you. Make sure to double-check that all your bonuses go into Bluff OR Demoralize. If something says it specifically effects "Intimidate to Demoralize" (some Traits do), ask your GM if you can take it for "Bluff to Demoralize".
At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill. At 6th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the bard can select an additional type of Perform to substitute.
The bad news is you're not ACTUALLY performing when you use Versatile Performance, simply using your ranks in the chosen Perform skill for an entirely different skill. This means, RAW, a Masterwork Instrument won't give you any bonuses to this check (although, I'd have to assume a reasonable GM would allow it, provided you actually ARE performing when you use Versatile Performance. The good news is you can indeed use Versatile Performance for, say, String to Bluff to Demoralize.
So if you have a +12 in Perform (String), you can use Versatile Performance, and roll Perform (String) in place of Bluff (mechanically, you're using the Bluff skill), and as long as you meet the Demoralize DC, you Demoralize! Now, if you've got your Masterwork mandolin out, and are already strummin along, and decide to use Versatile Performance and roll Perform (String) in place of Bluff, RAW, you're still working with a +12 on your check, but a groovy enough GM might just give you that +1 from Masterwork to add to your Perform (String) check to Bluff to Demoralize.
Hope that answered your questions :)