| TyroAmberhelm |
I need to capture 2 PC's in my game. A Cleric and a Ranger, both 8th level.
I will be using an assortment of Rogues, Assassins, and possibly a wizard if necessary. All 14ish level. It will occur in a city and probably during the day.
My players are very clever, number crunchy, and definitely OP. They will definitely call me out on any DM fudges/shenanigans. I am worried they will escape and/or kill the kidnappers.
This cannot happen. I need to guarantee this capture.
Any suggestions or tactics?
| The Guy With A Face |
One or two staves of this spell and your PCs won't know what hit 'em.
Ice Crystal Teleport
School conjuration (teleportation) [cold]; Level sorcerer/wizard 6, summoner 5, witch 6
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target one creature
Duration 1d4 rounds and instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yesThis spell functions as teleport, except you use it to teleport yourself or one other creature to a safe location you specify (the target can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed the target's heavy load). You can only send the target to a location with which you are very familiar. The target is first trapped in ice (hardness 0, 3 hit points per inch of thickness, 1 inch thick per caster level) for 1d4 rounds, during which time it is paralyzed, aware but unable to take any physical actions, and begins to fade away as the teleportation aspect takes effect. At the end of the 1d4 rounds, the target teleports to the specified location, and the ice's hit points drop to 0 and it quickly melts away. If the ice is destroyed before the target teleports, the spell ends and the teleport doesn't occur.
| Dave Justus |
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
"I need to guarantee this capture"
This is a bad plan. It is a game, not a novel and you absolutely should not be taking away player and character agency like this. You can set it up where it is possible they will be captured, where the bad guys are trying to capture them, but if you are guaranteeing and outcome, you should be telling them a story, not pretending they are playing a game.
It looks like you are planning on weighing the scales pretty heavily against your PCs, giving the level 14 opponents when they are level 8, which is pretty heavy handed to begin with. If, after all of that, the PCs still win, or at least escape, you should accept that and have a different plan for how the story will unfold.
My guess is, that if you succeed at this, you will have some pretty unhappy players and it isn't impossible it will end your campaign. Generally speaking, players are more accepting of a character dying then they are being captured, and I strongly urge caution. If you can accomplish the same plot goals with the captive being an NPC I think you will have better success.
| The Guy With A Face |
When my entire party was ice crystal teleported (including me), we didn't start flipping tables over it. I don't see why people can/do get upset over someone using a perfectly valid evil guy tactic with a perfectly valid spell...
Regardless, if your players will freak out over something like this I'd advise against it as well.
| Foeclan |
If you need to guarantee that they be captured, convince them that they need to be captured.
Set up a scenario in which they need to get a couple of the characters captured so they can find out what the bad guy is up to, or where they need to trade themselves for hostages like Andostre suggested, or something similar. The important part is that they feel as though they had a choice in the matter. Be prepared if they don't go for it, or come up with a better way to achieve that goal.
Railroading people into being captives can end with a lot of hard feelings, as Dave Justus said. Being steamrolled by enemies 6 levels higher than you so you can be used as a hostage isn't most people's idea of fun. I've had it happen to my characters several times, and it was never as fun for me as the GM thought it was.
| tonyz |
Yeah. Just lure them into a room they can't get out of (thick iron walls, maybe a teleport block if they have teleportation abilities), then slam the doors shut and fill the room with some kind of Str-damaging poison (unless they have delay poison or neutralize poison available). Hey, level 0 guys could do this by pulling a lever!
Someone using deep slumber (like sleep, but affects up to 10 HD creatures) might reasonably be useful as well.
Just be clear: some players are OK with "plot device stuff, this happens". Others get immensely frustrated if there was nothing their PCs could have done to change the outcome. Which type are your players?
| TyroAmberhelm |
I like the ice crystal spell Guy.
Thanks for the advice Dave & Foeclan. I'm aware that this is very railroady, and I don't want to get into details, but it isn't an issue. I know my players and they won't be unhappy.
14th level vs 8th level is pretty heavy handed but I'm always pretty amazed at what my players can pull off. I could just kill them which is what any sane 14th level evil guy would do. I am fully prepared to accept the consequences if they manage to escape.
I am not looking for general DM advice. I am looking for tactical advice. Spells, powers, abilities, etc that will help me pull this off. I am not a rookie DM, but I am a Pathfinder rookie. My players know it better then me. I think it's way too OP, but that's what they wanted to play so I'm stuck with it.
Bonus points for making it fun and dramatic.
| Third Mind |
How heroic and how paranoid is this party? Would they run to help a young mother screaming as she protects her child from a huge creature trying to eat them? Would they waist time utilizing detect magic to understand that the whole scene is an illusion placed atop a large pressure plate that when triggered, boxes them into a trap nigh impossible to escape?
| Foeclan |
I am not looking for general DM advice. I am looking for tactical advice. Spells, powers, abilities, etc that will help me pull this off. I am not a rookie DM, but I am a Pathfinder rookie. My players know it better then me. I think it's way too OP, but that's what they wanted to play so I'm stuck with it.
Bonus points for making it fun and dramatic.
With several 14th-level rogues, giving them Shatter Defenses (to make the PCs flat-footed more reliably than surprise/initiative) and Sap Master is going to stack the non-lethal damage really fast. At 14th level, you're taking 14d6 of non-lethal sneak attack damage per hit while you're flat-footed. That'll wreck anyone's day real fast at 8th level.
| tonyz |
Also, the advanced rogue talent that lets you do 2 points of Str damage on a sneak attack is very handy.
So is Dispelling Strike -- you have to build for it (minor magic, major magic) but being able to dispel enemy buffs with your sneak attack is pretty handy.
Don't forget reach weapons and whips (AoOs, trip/disarm attempts if the PCs can easily be neutralized that way, stuff like that.)
Charon's Little Helper
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Hostages. People or property that the two PCs care about.
Smart PCs will ignore the hostages entirely. After all, giving up doesn't guarantee that you'd let them go anyway.
With lvl 14 villains vs level 8 PCs it shouldn't be hard to capture them. A couple of easy answers.
1. A couple of tetori monks to wrastle them into submission.
2. A couple of assassins going for paralyze death attacks (if level 9 in assassin prestige & Int 18 - DC 24) who have 1 lvl of Snakebite Striker to be able to go unarmed for nonlethal. Likely 1 of them will be paralyzed for 10-15rds during which the other could be taken down with nonlethal combat with ease.
3. Feed them multiple doses of Oil of Taggit. (unconscious for 1d3 hours)
Really though, if you're willing to beat them with foes nearly double their level, it's just not very hard.
My big suggestion is to not drag it out. End it fast. Being beaten that handily just isn't fun to play for long.
| TyroAmberhelm |
Andostre wrote:Hostages. People or property that the two PCs care about.With lvl 14 villains vs level 8 PCs it shouldn't be hard to capture them. A couple of easy answers.
Really though, if you're willing to beat them with foes nearly double their level, it's just not very hard.
My big suggestion is to not drag it out. End it fast. Being beaten that handily just isn't fun to play for long.
To be far only the Wizard and assassin will be 14th. The ret will be low-level mooks.
I definitely wont drag it out. The fun is what happens when they're captured. Not that capturing itself.
| Drahliana Moonrunner |
I need to capture 2 PC's in my game. A Cleric and a Ranger, both 8th level.
I will be using an assortment of Rogues, Assassins, and possibly a wizard if necessary. All 14ish level. It will occur in a city and probably during the day.
My players are very clever, number crunchy, and definitely OP. They will definitely call me out on any DM fudges/shenanigans. I am worried they will escape and/or kill the kidnappers.
This cannot happen. I need to guarantee this capture.
Any suggestions or tactics?
Whatever your reason to "capture" your PC's rewrite it. Your players seem very much like the type that will resist capture to the utmost. (especially if they're the type that typically kill their prisoners).
Which means you'll have to resort to extreme railroading techniques that they will hate you for.
In a roleplaying campaign, you can usually get players motivated by threats to something they care about. But in a gamist campaign, that's hard to do.
| Claxon |
You need them captured?
Don't make it an actual combat or allow any rolls.
Plot events like this just happen, and if you make it happen while making it appear like you players had a chance to overcome it then it will likely just produce hard feelings on the part of your players.
My best advice is to say something like this,
"I understand that this is very railroad-y, but please for sake of the plot and story I have in mind follow along. You all have been captured in *insert scenario here*. You are now waking up *insert location here* with *insert condition here, including equipment*.
Anything else just isn't going to work out the way you want, IMO.
Now, if you want interesting ideas for how to describe how they are captured:
Knockout Gas
Flesh to Stone
Knocked Unconscious
Hostile Teleport