Spells: A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated in its specific description. Its caster level depends on its age, as shown for each type.
The above applies to True Dragons. Dragons cast spells as a Sorcerer, but they don't have the Eschew Materials feat, which all Sorcerers get as a bonus feat. The wording seems to imply that Dragons don't need material components to cast their spells, but RAW, it would appear that they do. Am I missing something?
Bump. Do Dragons have spell component pouches?
If it "casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated," why wouldn't it have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat?
+1 to what Bitter Lily said
Haven't seen any dragons with spell component pouches in modules. I'd go with "no".
If it "casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated," why wouldn't it have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat?
But it DOESN'T have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
If it "casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated," why wouldn't it have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat?But it DOESN'T have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
Are you the GM? If you want to give your dragons component pouches -- and the manipulative claws to get things out as needed -- and a merchant willing to show up with a wagonload of fresh components every now and then, so be it. If you don't want dragons to go through the fuss & bother, or you're the player, they have the feat even if it doesn't say so specifically.
If it "casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated," why wouldn't it have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat?
Because the granting of Eschew Materials as a bonus feat is a separate class feature that isn't tied to the sorcerers spellcasting. That is why it has a separate listing in the class table, and why it has a separate section in the text.
If it was part of the sorcerers spellcasting ability, it would be included under the Spells: entry, but it isn't.
If you don't want to give it as a bonus feat (I do) have the dragon take Eschew Materials as soon as it acquites spellcasting, no scale off its snout.
If it "casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated," why wouldn't it have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat?
It casts spells as a sorcerer, it doesn't get other sorcerer class features. Eschew Materials is a Sorcerer class feature that is not spellcasting; dragons don't get it for free.
By RAW dragons do, in fact, need spell component pouches to cast any spells with material components. If it really bugs you then just swap out one of their feats for Eschew Materials.
Are you the GM?
If you don't like that and want to create an exemption for your own game for flavor purposes that's fine, but that doesn't have any bearing on a rules discussion. The rules here are pretty cut and dry. Spell components are hardly the most popular game mechanic in Pathfinder, but the fact is Dragons have no special exemption from the requirement.
If it "casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated," why wouldn't it have Eschew Materials as a bonus feat?It casts spells as a sorcerer, it doesn't get other sorcerer class features. Eschew Materials is a Sorcerer class feature that is not spellcasting; dragons don't get it for free.
By RAW dragons do, in fact, need spell component pouches to cast any spells with material components. If it really bugs you then just swap out one of their feats for Eschew Materials.
Are you the GM?If you don't like that and want to create an exemption for your own game for flavor purposes that's fine, but that doesn't have any bearing on a rules discussion. The rules here are pretty cut and dry. Spell components are hardly the most popular game mechanic in Pathfinder, but the fact is Dragons have no special exemption from the requirement.
No GM I've played under has had a dragon reach into a pouch in order to cast a spell. [Added for clarity: The real authority, of course, is Paizo.] If there are no modules that do so, then... casting spells "as a sorcerer of the level indicated" includes the feat as an unwritten bonus feat.
Even if the dragon did get Eschew Materials as a bonus feat (it doesn't), both it and the sorcerer would probably still want a spell component pouch. Eschew Materials removes the need for inexpensive material components - it does nothing for inexpensive focus components (which are also included in the spell component pouch). Plus, it gives a place to store the expensive components that Eschew Materials doesn't remove.
If there are no modules that do so, then... casting spells "as a sorcerer of the level indicated" includes the feat as an unwritten bonus feat.
Paizo forgot to include component pouches for Wizards in the NPC Codex.
Dragons, like wizards, either need a spell component pouch or the eschew materials feat (and, as Jeraa points out, even if you have the feat you're still stuck carting around expensive material components and foci and will likely need the component pouch anyways). Dragon statblocks have neither, so it's fairly obvious that there is an oversight here. Which of these three possibilities do you think is most likely:
A) The designers intended to give Dragons Eschew Materials as a bonus feat, but forgot to list it.
B) The designers intended to give Dragons a spell component pouch, but forgot to list it.
C) The designers never even considered the spell component problem in the first place.
My vote is for C. I don't think we can infer anything about designer intent at all in this case. If they can't even remember to include spell component pouches for wizards (even when remembering more expensive material components, which aren't explicitly listed for dragons), I don't feel any conclusions can be drawn regarding their stance on dragons.
My guess is that the designer regarded the dragon spells largely as SLAs thereby obviating the component problem in its entirety.