Im making a tengu that focuses on many attacks plus added dice, via claws and bite + unarmored strikes.
i have a few ideas but cant really narrow down the best options, he will acrobatics to avoid aoos, but he is very feat heave with multiattack, twf, feral combat training bleeding attack, pummeling style and possibly jabbing style.
sneak attack build
I have a bunch of ideas stored at the bottom i just cant figure out which way is best for the character after 4. i was even bouncing back and forth between brawler and kineticist for lvl 1 as the brawler wild child has an animal companion but the boon companion was just to many feats so i decided to go acrobatics to get flanking. I also didn't want to depend on flanking for damage 100% so i have other sources of +1d6 for diversity. The low BAB was also a concern, 2 bab at lvl 4 i one behind, i didnt want that to get to large.
Any thoughts? also, haven't picked out traits so advice there would help too.
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I've been working on builds like this myself. If you click on my name and search for Natural Attacks or Sneak Attacks, etc, you will probably find a lot.
Here's one:
Teddy Rosy
The context of the post was commenting on a build proposed by Frodo of the 9 Fingers.
Here's another:
Ninja trip/dirty trick build
I see a few key elements to a build that does a lot of damage via Sneak Attack.
Lock in more than Reliable ways to get that Sneak Attack Damage. I like Dirty Trick Combat Maneuvers to make opponents Blind. Also, there is the Arcanist Exploit called Dimensional Slide, a tactical teleport that you can use to achieve Flanking. There is the Ninja Vanishing Trick. And level 10 Ninjas can get Greater Invisibility. There is a 3rd Prty Rogue Archetype called Vicious Opportunist that activates Sneak Attack more easily, but does less SA Damage.
The more attacks the better. You already are a Tengu with Claws. If you take a level in White Haired Witch, you also get a Hair Attack. There are magic items that give more natural Attacks. There are also Witch Hexes that give Natural Attacks: Nails and Prehensile Hair. If you are a White Haired Witch, you don't get Hexes, but you can get them as a Magus with the Hexcrafter Archetype. There is the Helm of the Mammoth Lord, which grants a Gore Attack. There is the Tentacle Cloak, which grants 2 tentacle attacks, but there's no telling how available magic items will be in your GM's campaign, ask ahead. It may make sense for some party members to acquire the ability to make magic items, perhaps via the Master Craftsman Feat. I noticed you are taking Multiattack. If you aren't taking any secondary Natural Attacks, such as Tail, Nails, or Tentacles, it might not be necessary. Ask your GM.
There are 2 force multipliers to Sneak Attacks I like: Sap Master and Grappling. Via Grab, White Hair, and the Hamatula Strike Feat, you can convert many of your attacks into Grapples and inflict Armor Spike Damage, which will also do Sneak Attack Damage. With Bludgeoner, Cornudgeon Smash, and Shatter Defenses, you can double your Sneak Attack Damage, but it is Feat-expensive, takes 2 hits to activate, and you do nonlethal damage.
You're trying to do too much. A lot of that doesn't stack together. I don't think you can use pummeling style with claws even if you have feral combat training, because of the last line of the feat (note: this was added in the most recent errata), "This ability works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other abilities you might possess."
What level are you starting at? You need to make sure your character is viable at that level, not just at 20th (which you probably won't ever get to).
All things considered, a tengu natural attack unchained rogue will probably be more effective than the combination you're going for.
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote: You're trying to do too much. A lot of that doesn't stack together. I don't think you can use pummeling style with claws even if you have feral combat training, because of the last line of the feat (note: this was added in the most recent errata), "This ability works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other abilities you might possess."
What level are you starting at? You need to make sure your character is viable at that level, not just at 20th (which you probably won't ever get to).
All things considered, a tengu natural attack unchained rogue will probably be more effective than the combination you're going for.
i also took bite from tegu and was going to multi-attack with unarmed strikes through TWF as FoB excludes that.
i was concerned about the pummeling working, and it does take up a lot of feats. my understanding of the clarification what that it was preventing mace/sword of pummeling while feral combat counts natural attacks as unarmed for feats, that part is very vague yes.
by diversifying i was trying to limit my uselessness against certain enemies, example being the kineticist electric aura hits swarms.
what archtypes would you recommend for the unchained rogue?
benaji wrote: i also took bite from tegu and was going to multi-attack with unarmed strikes through TWF as FoB excludes that. Check with your GM. Technically, Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons and don't demote Primary Natural Weapons to Secondary. If you have to take Multiattack, it's not a big deal. But it doesn't hurt to ask your GM.
Meanwhile, depending on your build, you might not have time to take 2weapon, growing in power so fast in other ways.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: benaji wrote: i also took bite from tegu and was going to multi-attack with unarmed strikes through TWF as FoB excludes that. Check with your GM. Technically, Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons and don't demote Primary Natural Weapons to Secondary. If you have to take Multiattack, it's not a big deal. But it doesn't hurt to ask your GM.
Meanwhile, depending on your build, you might not have time to take 2weapon, growing in power so fast in other ways. They count as natural attacks for things such magic fang, but they do not count in every case. They can't be affected by improved natural attack as an example.
wraithstrike wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: benaji wrote: i also took bite from tegu and was going to multi-attack with unarmed strikes through TWF as FoB excludes that. Check with your GM. Technically, Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons and don't demote Primary Natural Weapons to Secondary. If you have to take Multiattack, it's not a big deal. But it doesn't hurt to ask your GM.
Meanwhile, depending on your build, you might not have time to take 2weapon, growing in power so fast in other ways. They count as natural attacks for things such magic fang, but they do not count in every case. They can't be affected by improved natural attack as an example. Improved Natural Attack specifically excepts Unarmed Strikes from its benefits, though.
Improve Natural Attack wrote: not an unarmed strike
Scott Wilhelm wrote: wraithstrike wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: benaji wrote: i also took bite from tegu and was going to multi-attack with unarmed strikes through TWF as FoB excludes that. Check with your GM. Technically, Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons and don't demote Primary Natural Weapons to Secondary. If you have to take Multiattack, it's not a big deal. But it doesn't hurt to ask your GM.
Meanwhile, depending on your build, you might not have time to take 2weapon, growing in power so fast in other ways. They count as natural attacks for things such magic fang, but they do not count in every case. They can't be affected by improved natural attack as an example. Improved Natural Attack specifically excepts Unarmed Strikes from its benefits, though.
Improve Natural Attack wrote: not an unarmed strike There is no rule that says unarmed strikes are natural attacks by the general rules. That is why things such as the amulet of might fist have to call them out separately.
wraithstrike wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: wraithstrike wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: benaji wrote: i also took bite from tegu and was going to multi-attack with unarmed strikes through TWF as FoB excludes that. Check with your GM. Technically, Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons and don't demote Primary Natural Weapons to Secondary. If you have to take Multiattack, it's not a big deal. But it doesn't hurt to ask your GM.
Meanwhile, depending on your build, you might not have time to take 2weapon, growing in power so fast in other ways. They count as natural attacks for things such magic fang, but they do not count in every case. They can't be affected by improved natural attack as an example. Improved Natural Attack specifically excepts Unarmed Strikes from its benefits, though.
Improve Natural Attack wrote: not an unarmed strike There is no rule that says unarmed strikes are natural attacks by the general rules. That is why things such as the amulet of might fist have to call them out separately. Yes, there is.
Core Rulebook, Monk wrote: A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
That is a special rule for monks. I said "general rule". Because if you are not a monk you do not benefit from it.
wraithstrike wrote: That is a special rule for monks. I said "general rule". Because if you are not a monk you do not benefit from it. Monks and Brawlers, yes. The OP is considering levels in MOMS Monk, so I think it is worth asking his GM
I completely missed when you said "Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons".
I saw everything except the word "monk".
Sorry about that.
"This ability works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other abilities you might possess."
This is more specific than Feral combat training, and therefore overrides it.
The best way to be effective against swarms at low levels is to bring a few alchemist fire or acid flasks. At higher levels, UMD a wand or just stay back and let the party caster take care of it.
Scout is a great archetype for a uRogue.
The most reliable way to get sneak attack is through either pack flanking or scurrying swarmer. Easiest way to get pack flanking to work is a sanctified slayer inquisitor with the mount inquisition. Problem is slower progression for sneak attack, but it still works pretty well.
I am currently playing a vivisectionist/beastmorph ratfolk alchemist that rides his mauler familiar. At level 7, he has 4 primary natural attacks (claw/claw/bite/gore) and a secondary tailblade. With scurrying swarmer, he flanks any creature his familiar attacks.
A monk's unarmed strike still causes any natural attacks you have to be demoted to secondary.
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote: "This ability works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other abilities you might possess." I'm sorry, what ability only works on unarmed strikes?
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Scott Wilhelm wrote: Paladin of Baha-who? wrote: "This ability works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other abilities you might possess." I'm sorry, what ability only works on unarmed strikes? Pummeling style.
If you take 5 levels of Unarmed Fighter you get:
Improved Unarmed Strike for free as a bonus feat
A bonus Style feat
3 bonus Combat feats
Harsh Training (meh)
Tough Guy (also meh)
Weapon Training in both Monk and Unarmed Weapon groups (Unarmed contains Natural Attacks)
If you take another level that will give you another bonus Combat feat.
The only things you will lose out on are Bravery and Armor Training. The fact that you have Weapon Training will allow you to get Gloves of Dueling which will increase your hit and damage with all Unarmed and Natural attacks by +3/+3. If you also get Light Armor and get the Brawling enchantment that will bring that up to a total of +5/+5.
Since you are already going to forgo Flurry of Blows as you are taking Master of Many Styles might I also recommend that you take Kata Master archetype as it stacks. I recommend it mostly because that class' Penache ability has the following line:
Quote: A kata master can use an unarmed strike or monk special weapon in place of a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon for granted swashbuckler class features and deeds. That would allow you to take a level of Swashbuckler and pick up Swashbuckler Finesse. Since your bite is already piercing (and slashing and bludgeoning for that matter) that also counts for Swashbuckler's Finesse. Your claws don't but that is a minor loss. Either way this makes it a much better option than having to depend on sinking a feat into Feral Combat Training and going with the uRogue's Finesse. Grab a +0 Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists as soon as possible. Still take Two-Weapon Fighting as your iterative, off-hand and natural attacks are all now much more likely to hit and will land for significant damage.
Your build is lacking in some things that is pretty important for a build that depends on hitting opponents often in melee:
1. To hit bonuses. Look at your bonuses to hit. Your BAB alone is atrocious. If you go with a build like mine it will up your to hit by HUGE amounts. Getting Finesse and Dex to damage with most of your weapons (everything except claws), Brawling and Gloves of Dueling is going to likely up your to hit and damage bonus by something like +10/+10. Sure you lose out on sneak attack but if you can't hit the broad side of a barn in the first place does it really matter how much additional damage each sneak attack dice does? Also, is your sneak attack going to be doing more than +10 damage on average?
2. Hit Points. You got all squishy and semi-squishy levels. I doubt you were budgeting much for having a high Con score and you are too feat tight to pick up Toughness. Low Con plus squishy Hit Dice is a recipe for a dead front liner.
If you want to put some Rogue levels later just to pickup some sneak attack then it won't hurt by the time you have taken my suggestions above. Sneak attack damage is all situational at best and at worst... well, aside from immunities and the fact that you are likely only landing a single sneak attack per turn with the rest being normal attacks it doesn't look very promising. Sure it adds to every attack but so too does Gloves of Dueling, Agile and Brawling (for most things).
The only thing this build is lacking that yours has is skill points. But I feel with the changes I suggested you could easily up your Int a bit and afford some skill boosting items. You can still pick up the Styles that you wanted and can probably make better use of them. With the extra feats you will be gaining and saving not having to take (like Feral Combat Training) I might recommend some of the following:
Piranha Strike
Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack and Circling Mongoose
Combat Reflexes, Snake Style, Snake Sidewind and Snake Fang (look at how Snake Fang works in conjunction with Circling Mongoose, I might recommend it over Pummeling Style as it no longer works with your Natural attacks)
If you would prefer you could go with Panther Style over Snake Style but Snake seems to fit your theme more. If going Panther Style you will need a higher Wis which I wouldn't recommend for the build as you will likely be wearing armor and not benefiting from Wis to AC.
Removed some bickering posts. Folks, don't clutter up Advice threads with previous personal disagreements and turn them into platforms for rules debates. If you're not posting advice, don't post it.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Check with your GM. Technically, Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons and don't demote Primary Natural Weapons to Secondary. If you have to take Multiattack, it's not a big deal. But it doesn't hurt to ask your GM.
Sorry for getting back so late and thanks for all the posts. ill reply 1 at a time and work through all the good advice!
this is for PFS btw, so if there is illegal things please point them out!
Monk unarmed attacks say:
"for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
how does this say anything about combining with natural primary attacks.
further:
"nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks."
i just don't understand how i would be exempt from multi-attack.
Lune wrote: If you also get Light Armor and get the Brawling enchantment that will bring that up to a total of +5/+5.
Since you are already going to forgo Flurry of Blows as you are taking Master of Many Styles might I also recommend that you take Kata Master archetype as it stacks. I recommend it mostly because that class' Penache ability has the following line:
Quote: A kata master can use an unarmed strike or monk special weapon in place of a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon for granted swashbuckler class features and deeds. That would allow you to take a level of Swashbuckler and pick up Swashbuckler Finesse. Since your bite is already piercing (and slashing and bludgeoning for that matter) that also counts for Swashbuckler's Finesse. Your claws don't but that is a minor loss. Either way this makes it a much better option than having to depend on sinking a feat into Feral Combat Training and going with the uRogue's Finesse.
wow, ok, ill add kata master for free sure. +1d6 to acrobatics every time i kill or crit with bite or unarmed, nice. minimum 1 so ill use as often as available, without being any more MAD.
Lune wrote: Grab a +0 Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists as soon as possible. Still take Two-Weapon Fighting as your iterative, off-hand and natural attacks are all now much more likely to hit and will land for significant damage. i knew there were good items to buy and all these suggestions are good.
Lune wrote: Your build is lacking in some things that is pretty important for a build that depends on hitting opponents often in melee:
1. To hit bonuses. Look at your bonuses to hit. Your BAB alone is atrocious. If you go with a build like mine it will up your to hit by HUGE...
I know, to hit was my very weak point, now that pummeling is off the table im wondering about monk at all, as it is a BAB drop.
benaji wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Check with your GM. Technically, Monk Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Weapons and don't demote Primary Natural Weapons to Secondary. If you have to take Multiattack, it's not a big deal. But it doesn't hurt to ask your GM.
Sorry for getting back so late and thanks for all the posts. ill reply 1 at a time and work through all the good advice!
this is for PFS btw, so if there is illegal things please point them out!
Monk unarmed attacks say:
"for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
how does this say anything about combining with natural primary attacks.
further:
"nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks."
i just don't understand how i would be exempt from multi-attack. If it's for PFS, I can virtually guarantee that nobody will read that the way Scott is.
However, how are you getting Multiattack for PFS? I may be missing something in overlooking this (or not double-checking the allowed resources), but Multiattack isn't available to everyone in PFS.
benaji wrote: this is for PFS btw Ohh.
Then you pretty much can't take Multiattack or any other Monster Feat. The only way I know you can take Multiattack in PFS is via 10 levels in Ranger. You might try taking 1 level in Brawler and using your Martial Flexibility to use Multiattack, but I'm not sure that's legal. But, Martial Flexibility is such a good Class Ability that even if most PFS GMs don't let you take Multiattack that way, you should still find good uses for it. Doesn't hurt to try: no harm, no foul, but don't expect to ever get Mulitattack in PFS.
Last I checked, you also can't be a Ratfolk nor Vivisectionist in PFS. nicholas storm probably saw you were taking Multiattack just like I did and supposed that you were not playing PFS. Hope I'm not out-of-line here, nicholas.
benaji wrote: "nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks." You pretty much can't use Flurry of Blows with Natural Attacks.
I saw you are interested in being a Monk Master of Many Styles. MOMS Monks don't get Flurry.
benaji wrote: Monk unarmed attacks say:
"for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
So what I said is technically correct--the best kind of correct--but there is good reason to say it is controversial, and you have to be well-prepared to face oppostion from a GM, and be able to skillfully, clearly, and BRIEFLY prove it's legal. No offense, but from the few things you were saying in your last post, I don't think you are ready. May I ask how experienced you are as a Pathfinder player? The builds I have been proposing are very complex.
I think you should delay taking 2 Weapon Fighting in your build until you have a chance to get to know how Natural Attack builds work, and to test out your local store's mood. Also, Christ Lambertz just called for an end to debate on this particular topic, so I should probably PM you details about how those rules interact, if that's all right with you.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Ohh.
Then you pretty much can't take Multiattack or any other Monster Feat. The only way I know you can take Multiattack in PFS is via 10 levels in Ranger. You might try taking 1 level in Brawler and using your Martial Flexibility to use Multiattack, but I'm not sure that's legal. But, Martial Flexibility is such a good Class Ability that even if most PFS GMs don't let you take Multiattack that way, you should still find good uses for it. Doesn't hurt to try: no harm, no foul, but don't expect to ever get Mulitattack in PFS.
Last I checked, you also can't be a Ratfolk nor Vivisectionist in PFS. nicholas storm probably saw you were taking Multiattack just like I did and supposed that you were not playing PFS. Hope I'm not out-of-line here, nicholas.
So what I said is technically correct--the best kind of correct--but there is good reason to say it is controversial, and you have to be well-prepared to face oppostion from a GM, and be able to skillfully, clearly, and BRIEFLY prove it's legal. No offense, but from the few things you were saying in your last post, I don't think you are ready. May I ask how experienced you are as a Pathfinder player? The builds I have been proposing are very complex.
I think you should delay taking 2 Weapon Fighting in your build until you have a chance to get to know how Natural Attack builds work, and to test out your local store's mood. Also, Christ Lambertz just called for an end to debate on this particular topic, so I should probably PM you details about how those rules...
i didn't know that about multiattack, i just thought i could take it if i qualified with 3 natural attacks.
benaji wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Ohh.
Then you pretty much can't take Multiattack or any other Monster Feat. The only way I know you can take Multiattack in PFS is via 10 levels in Ranger. You might try taking 1 level in Brawler and using your Martial Flexibility to use Multiattack, but I'm not sure that's legal. But, Martial Flexibility is such a good Class Ability that even if most PFS GMs don't let you take Multiattack that way, you should still find good uses for it. Doesn't hurt to try: no harm, no foul, but don't expect to ever get Mulitattack in PFS.
Last I checked, you also can't be a Ratfolk nor Vivisectionist in PFS. nicholas storm probably saw you were taking Multiattack just like I did and supposed that you were not playing PFS. Hope I'm not out-of-line here, nicholas.
So what I said is technically correct--the best kind of correct--but there is good reason to say it is controversial, and you have to be well-prepared to face oppostion from a GM, and be able to skillfully, clearly, and BRIEFLY prove it's legal. No offense, but from the few things you were saying in your last post, I don't think you are ready. May I ask how experienced you are as a Pathfinder player? The builds I have been proposing are very complex.
I think you should delay taking 2 Weapon Fighting in your build until you have a chance to get to know how Natural Attack builds work, and to test out your local store's mood. Also, Christ Lambertz just called for an end to debate on this particular topic, so I should probably PM you details about how those rules...
i didn't know that about multiattack, i just thought i could take it if i qualified with 3 natural attacks. There are restrictions on what is available in PFS. Check the Additional Resources to be sure that what you'd like to use is available in Society Play.
fretgod99 wrote: There are restrictions on what is available in PFS. Check the Additional Resources to be sure that what you'd like to use is available in Society Play. i have been playing for some time, i just didnt check monster feats. Now i understand why the negative to hill will kill this build.
You may want to check the errata on MoMS Monk by the way. It actually helps you with to hit bonuses. It is a fair amount different than it's original incarnation. Also, only the first Style feat in the chain are now considered "Style" feats. The rest are Combat feats.
Those changes outright ruined one of my builds and seriously nerfed 2 more.
which will work better for a rogue talent in pfs:
Pressure Points* (Su) or Bleeding Attack (Ex)?
Scott,
I just looked at his character now. I always assume characters are not for PFS if they don't state it in the original post or header.
Benaji,
Taking that many classes hurts your BAB and complicates your character:
1) My opinion would be to ditch kineticist from your build. Your build has a BAB of +2 at level 5.
2) Jabbing style only works with unarmed strikes. It won't apply to natural attacks without feral combat training.
I think in general for PFS, it's not going to be worth it to combine natural attacks with weapon attacks, because then all your natural attacks become secondary. You will have a lot of attacks and miss with most of them. As such, get rid of MOMS.
I would refine the character to something like Rogue4/Brawler1/Hunter3 at level 8. Take feats combat expertise, pack flanking, accomplished sneak attacker, boon companion. At level 8 you should have 4d6 sneak attack.
benaji wrote: which will work better for a rogue talent in pfs:
Pressure Points* (Su) or Bleeding Attack (Ex)?
Bleeding attack, but it's only worthwhile if you are a kuthite and take the Cruelty feat. Otherwise they are both a waste.
A much simpler way of doing a tengu unarmed/natural weapon sneak attaack build is to be a STR-based Slayer with the natural weapons style. The style will allow you to legally take multiattack, and just take IUS with a regular feat, although you could spare a dip of brawler/unarmed fighter/unchained monk 1 if you wanted to save the feat.
You'll have a much higher BAB than your multiclassed monstrosity, and will have studied target to give you a further bonus to hit and damage with each attack.
Lune wrote: You may want to check the errata on MoMS Monk by the way. It actually helps you with to hit bonuses. It is a fair amount different than it's original incarnation. Also, only the first Style feat in the chain are now considered "Style" feats. The rest are Combat feats.
Those changes outright ruined one of my builds and seriously nerfed 2 more.
When do I get the +2 to hit bonus, lvl 1 or 6?
nicholas storm wrote: Benaji,
I would refine the character to something like Rogue4/Brawler1/Hunter3 at level 8. Take feats combat expertise, pack flanking, accomplished sneak attacker, boon companion. At level 8 you should have 4d6 sneak attack.
so at lvl 5 i have 4d6 sneak attack. then the question, is hunter the best option for animal companion? is the animal companion to much and i should drop it for witch to get hair natural attack or kineticist? i never knew of Accomplished Sneak Attacker. Debilitating injury is nice.
then there is str for dmg, or dex for panther style and AOO/ac?
as for pack flanking, i have found my velocirapter to be very good at flanking and acrobatics.
It's a little off-topic because it doesn't have any Sneak Attack, but I just posted a Natural Attack build here if you are interested. It's a Druidzilla build that focuses on Wildshaping into a Giant Octopus. For a PFS Druidzilla, I would favor Wildshaping into a Warcat, but the build principles mostly apply regardless of the form you choose. And some of the ideas are applicable to a variety of Natural Attack builds. I mostly put together a build that is more appropriate to this OP's, and I intend to post it later.
so here are some revisions i was thinking about. STR based. going for dragon and panther style with MoMS, kata master, thug, and scout archtypes. i couldn't figure how to do animal companion better then animal ally so that takes the feats.
i feel this version focuses on sneak attack much more effectively, incorporating most ideas presented here and leaving plenty of opportunity for multiclassing after lvl 6, without committing to hunter.
link
this also opens up charging with scout/dragon style/panther style
and gets rid of the illegal pummeling style.
better?
benaji wrote: so here are some revisions i was thinking about. STR based. going for dragon and panther style with MoMS, kata master, thug, and scout archtypes. i couldn't figure how to do animal companion better then animal ally so that takes the feats.
i feel this version focuses on sneak attack much more effectively, incorporating most ideas presented here and leaving plenty of opportunity for multiclassing after lvl 6, without committing to hunter.
link
this also opens up charging with scout/dragon style/panther style
and gets rid of the illegal pummeling style.
better?
So, Kata Masters use swords. And Panther Style doesn't. You might consider early entry into Aesetic Style feats instead of Dragon Style, which will let you use Panther Style Feat in addition to your Panache with your sword. I'm not sure what's a good choice of weapon, though.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: benaji wrote: so here are some revisions i was thinking about. STR based. going for dragon and panther style with MoMS, kata master, thug, and scout archtypes. i couldn't figure how to do animal companion better then animal ally so that takes the feats.
i feel this version focuses on sneak attack much more effectively, incorporating most ideas presented here and leaving plenty of opportunity for multiclassing after lvl 6, without committing to hunter.
link
this also opens up charging with scout/dragon style/panther style
and gets rid of the illegal pummeling style.
better?
So, Kata Masters use swords. And Panther Style doesn't. You might consider early entry into Aesetic Style feats instead of Dragon Style, which will let you use Panther Style Feat in addition to your Panache with your sword. I'm not sure what's a good choice of weapon, though. Taking a brief look, I see Temple and 9ring sword. Both seem promising by themselves. Temple Swords are also Trip Weapons. Neither are very swashy though.
I guess you can still just use your Unarmed strikes
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
So, Kata Masters use swords. And Panther Style doesn't.
Kata counts unarmed as piercing for panche. And I have bite, which after excluding my claws is still better then stunning fist which I have never used.
benaji wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote:
So, Kata Masters use swords. And Panther Style doesn't.
Kata counts unarmed as piercing for panche. And I have bite, which after excluding my claws is still better then stunning fist which I have never used. Yes, Kata Masters can use Unarmed Strikes as if they were swords vis a vis Penache. Aesetic Style is just a thought. Not be a lot like what you were proposing in the beginning of your thread, but with the idea of being a Kata Master of Many Styles, it seemed like a reasonable suggestion.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Yes, Kata Masters can use Unarmed Strikes as if they were swords vis a vis Penache. Aesetic Style is just a thought. Not be a lot like what you were proposing in the beginning of your thread, but with the idea of being a Kata Master of Many Styles, it seemed like a reasonable suggestion. My build is the same as befor, instead of 3 lvls monk I'm going 4 and decided to add other classes down at the bottom. I've incorporated all the ideas I've heard here, I feel well.
My point is its the same build, I'm not upping my charisma and the panche says minimum 1, I'll probably dump it to an 8, I'm not spending extra resourced on that part, easily replacing stunning fist for a occasional 1d6 to acrobatics Which will always be spent as needed.
I need more trait advice, or a better way to get animal companion. You guys have been very helpful (pummeling style being illegal!) and grounding.
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