Since both Weapon Master and Armor Master handbooks came out, they are slowly beating my character idea into the ground.
Fighter (Martial Master/Lore Warden) 9 / Monk (Maneuver Master) 2 whip tripper, dirty fighter, and beginning intimidater.
Maneuver Master Monk lets me do do an additional maneuver when I full attack, even including standard action maneuvers as part of that full attack once per round. Is there any way to get that without Maneuver Master?
EDIT: I should add why
Maneuver Master Monk doesn't work with armor, post errata, so I am looking to wear some armor, and keep that ability.
I don't know of any other way to get that.
I know there's a feat that'll let you substitute your first attack of a full attack for a dirty trick. I don't know if there's analogous feats for other maneuvers, but if there's not, it seems potentially reasonable for a home GM to allow them. Other than that, I know that cad fighters can get dirty tricks included with every attack at 7th level if their opponent is denied DEX to AC (which dirty tricks can do). Those are the best options I know of.
(Can you tell I've been looking into a dirty trick build lately? :P)
EDIT: Actually, look into brawler, maybe: their brawler's flurry lets you substitute disarm, sunder, and trip maneuvers for any of your unarmed attacks. Unfortunately it doesn't work with whips, though.
Extra maneuvers with no other restrictions? No. Extra maneuvers under specific conditions? Plenty, but you'll need to be a lot more specific about what you want. Things like "free trip attack when you deal 35 damage with an AoO" or "free bull rush when you shield slam".
Oh, and substituting disarm, sunder, or trip for an attack is something anyone can do with basically any attack. Even AoO. If those are what you want you might be able to TWF and dump all the off-hand attacks into maneuvers.
There is Cavalier Order (seal, I think) that give extra maneuver (trip and bull rush, pick one, I think) on full attacks.
There's assorted spells which do this. Chain of Perdition springs to mind but I'm sure i've read others.
I'm trying to get a standard action maneuver in there during a full attack.
The current default plan is:
- 1st regular attack: Trip the bad guy
- Greater Trip AoO: Non-lethal Damage triggering Intimidate with Enforcer
- Hurtful Swift Action Attack: Non-lethal Damage, triggering cruel
- Haste: Quick Dirty Trick of some sort
- Maneuver Master Maneuver: Dirty Trick amplified with Dirty Trick Master
- 2nd Regular Attack: Non-lethal Damage (or whatever, maybe trip something else or stunning fist the target)
That should leave the bad guy prone, shaken for (damage) rounds, sickened for 1 round (cruel weapon), and one of dazed/pinned/frightened/ nauseated for 1d4+ rounds.
Plan B is:
- 1st regular attack: Trip bad guy 1
- Greater trip AoO: Quick Dirty Trick bad guy 1
- Maneuver Master Maneuver: Dirty Trick Again
- Haste: Trip bad guy 2
- Greater trip AoO: Non-lethal Damage triggering Intimidate with Enforcer on bad guy 2
- Hurtful Swift Action Attack: Non-lethal Damage on bad guy 2, triggering cruel
- 2nd Regular Attack: Non-lethal Damage (or whatever, maybe trip something else or stunning fist the second bad guy)
That should leave bad guy 1 prone with one of dazed/pinned/frightened/ nauseated for 1d4+ rounds.
Bad guy 2 should be prone, shaken for (damage) rounds, and sickened for 1 round, nicely laid out for the casters to play with.
It looks like Quick Dirty Trick with Combat Stamina might do the trick here, at least for Dirty Trick.
Being able to stick a grapple, bull rush, drag, reposition, or steal in there would be nice, which is why I am trying to get Maneuver Master in there, just for fun. I will have martial flexibility, after all.
I might also consider Serpent Lash. It makes trip a standard action, and if I succeed, let me trip something else.
- Maneuver Master Maneuver or standard action: Serpent Lash Trip bad guy 1
- Greater trip AoO: Quick Dirty Trick bad guy 1
- Serpent Lash Bonus Trip: Trip bad guy 2
- Greater trip AoO: Non-lethal Damage triggering Intimidate with Enforcer on bad guy 2
- Hurtful Swift Action Attack: Non-lethal Damage on bad guy 2, triggering cruel
- This is a good stopping point for a standard action.
- 1st regular attack: Trip bad guy 3
- Greater trip AoO: Non-lethal Damage triggering Intimidate with Enforcer on bad guy 3
- Haste: Non-lethal Damage triggering Intimidate with Enforcer on bad guy 1 or attack bad guy 3 to triggering cruel
- 2nd Regular Attack: Spend Stamina to Dirty Trick bad guy 1 with something nasty or something above from haste
Your build looks a lot like what I'm trying to do. It gets pretty feat intensive trying to stack multiple maneuvers. I like the quick dirty trick angle.
Check out my build. Maybe it'll give you some ideas.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tnfr?Maneuver-Master-build-advice
Nekomimi^w^ wrote: There is Cavalier Order (seal, I think) that give extra maneuver (trip and bull rush, pick one, I think) on full attacks. Yep, that's the one, and at first level. Not bad. I might squeeze that in later. Thanks.
avr wrote: There's assorted spells which do this. Chain of Perdition springs to mind but I'm sure i've read others. I'm aiming to be a martial. It's not a bad spell for my Warpriest version though. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
The Savage Dirty Trick rage power does this, but that would be a pretty steep Barbarian investment. Strength Surge would be great for this build too, though.
Markov Spiked Chain wrote: The Savage Dirty Trick rage power does this, but that would be a pretty steep Barbarian investment. Strength Surge would be great for this build too, though. That's not bad. Barbarian VMC maybe? I don't think I can fit it in.
Half-Orc Fighter (Lore Warden/Martial Master) 9, Monk (Maneuver Master) 2
Str 12 Dex 16+2 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 7, All points to Dex
Racial Traits: Fey Thoughts, Tenacious
Traits: Caravan Driver, Bruising Intellect
1: F1/M0 - Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, Combat Stamina (free added)
2: F1/M1 - Imp Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
3: F2/M1 - Weapon Focus (Whip), Whip Mastery, Combat Expertise
4: F2/M2 - Imp Dirty Trick
5: F3/M2 - Combat Reflexes
6: F4/M2 - Imp Whip Mastery
7: F5/M2 - Greater Trip
8: F6/M2 - Enforcer
9: F7/M2 - Quick Dirty Trick
10: F8/M2 - Greater Dirty Trick
11: F9/M2 - Serpent Lash
Martial Flexibility Option 1: Dirty Trick Master, Hurtful (Only quality for Master during full attacks til level 12, when I take it)
Martial Flexibility Option 2: Hurtful, Greater Serpent Lash (Standard action, trip 2 within reach)
Whip and Dex really eat up the feats (5) but Agile Maneuvers + Combat Stamina is quite good for a tripper, and I like the whip idea. The build comes together faster with another weapon, and as a strength focus
Have you looked into Path of War? A lot of the maneuvers and stances give you the ability to make free maneuvers with attacks, or do a maneuver as a swift action, or whatever. Even if you don't want to use an actual class, you can pick up some maneuvers and stances via feats.
I had not considered it because my GM(s) are somewhat allergic to 3pp sadly. Considering that they are semi-ok with Ultimate Psionics is sure confusing. Also, pretty much any 3pp I suggest is going to be likely considered "broken". I've the min-max rep in the group, even though I aim to be on par with the rest of the party, or I optimize the hell out of something that is far from optimal (nearly dedicated healer life oracle, for example)
All of that said, I assume Warder. Anything specific I should be looking for?
As long as we're just listing alternatives, there is a feat which would allow you make one (specific) standard action Maneuver and one attack action.
One-Handed Weapon Tricks wrote:
Special: You can use these tricks only while wearing light or no armor, wielding a light or one-handed manufactured weapon in one hand, and holding nothing in your off hand.
Free Hand Maneuver
Additional Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +6
As a full-round action, you can make a single attack with your weapon and attempt to perform a dirty trick, disarm, drag, reposition, or steal combat maneuver with your free hand, taking no penalties for two-weapon fighting. The combat maneuver provokes attacks of opportunities as normal, unless you have an appropriate ability or feat. You are not considered unarmed for this maneuver, but can't apply any benefits of your weapon to the combat maneuver check.
/.../
Well, PoW is by the same company, so maybe they'll allow it. However, I've seen mention on various forums that they're considering nerfing a couple of the disciplines (Broken Blade and Primal Fury, I think?) because their damage output is higher than they intended.
As for which class, I'm personally a huge fan of the Warlord (especially the steelfist commando), and their gambits can really help you land certain maneuvers. Warders look pretty cool, with that huge threatened area and gobs of attacks of opportunity, but I haven't played one and I'm not sure how useful that would be since you're sort of in passive mode while using it; it's just a different playstyle than I'm used to.
I think Broken Blade tends to be the go-to for combat maneuvers. At early levels, Brawler's Attitude helps you land maneuvers, and Knuckle to the Blade, Leg Sweeping Hilt, Flat Iron Riposte, and Iron Dust let you perform maneuvers as part of attacks; later, the 6th level Pit Fighter's Stance lets you make one dirty trick per round as a swift action.
Other disciplines involve combat maneuvers to a much lesser degree. I think Primal Fury tends to have all the charge-pounce options, Iron Tortoise is all about blocking attacks and hitting people with your shield, Golden Lion lets you play kind of like a 4e Warlord, and Veiled Moon (my favorite) lets you be Nightcrawler.
Wonderstell wrote: As long as we're just listing alternatives, there is a feat which would allow you make one (specific) standard action Maneuver and one attack action.
One-Handed Weapon Tricks wrote:
Special: You can use these tricks only while wearing light or no armor, wielding a light or one-handed manufactured weapon in one hand, and holding nothing in your off hand.
Free Hand Maneuver
Additional Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +6
As a full-round action, you can make a single attack with your weapon and attempt to perform a dirty trick, disarm, drag, reposition, or steal combat maneuver with your free hand, taking no penalties for two-weapon fighting. The combat maneuver provokes attacks of opportunities as normal, unless you have an appropriate ability or feat. You are not considered unarmed for this maneuver, but can't apply any benefits of your weapon to the combat maneuver check.
/.../
I'm not sure this is worth a feat. Maybe at low levels, but giving up 4+ attacks to make 1 attack and disarm is not a good trade.
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