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Blargh. From the studio that brought us The Amazing Spiderman 2 and the writer who gifted us with such mediocrity as Agents Of Shield? I'm hardly optimistic at this point.
I am very curious to see the castings for Rand and Moiraine, though. As my two favorite characters in the series, these will have the greatest impact on my attitude towards the cast.
I'm reasonably confident they can pull it off with skill.
Especially since they'll have real scripts from the books to go with it.
I'm assuming.
Blargh. From the studio that brought us The Amazing Spiderman 2
Sony Pictures and Sony Pictures Television are two completely different companies. They share a common parent company somewhere above them (Sony, obviously) but they are otherwise completely independent of one another.
Shows that Sony Pictures Television have been/are currently involved in:
Breaking Bad
Better Call Saul
Preacher
Outlander
The Shield
Rescue Me
Justified
The Get Down
These are all decent shows with immense critical acclaim and a lot of popularity. That's not to say all their shows are great (they also did The Tudors, which was mostly meh, but their involvement in that show was more remote) but Sony TV definitely have a very high hit rate.
Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are two of the best TV shows I've had the pleasure of watching. I'm anxiously awaiting WoT, but I'll reserve judgement.
GM,
I'm just anxiously awaiting for Dumai's Wells and probably the fight in side the Stone.
Plus you know Callendor.
I finished an audiobook run on WoT last year (I think), and I'm not sure if I'm excited for this. I've come to look at the series as being mature enough for typical high-school/college age readers, but it's tone and content never rise above that. I really enjoyed the series at that age, but I've since realized a lot of the characters and relationships are quite shallow; there is little "real life" about their interactions.
I would also be nominally concerned about what direction the producers take it. If it tries to be a Game of Thrones clone, I expect most of the females in the series to be rudely exploited. Jordan included plenty of nudity in the books, but I'm not sure it was ever meant to be titillating. All of the actual hook-ups were done "off-camera." So, I guess we'll see.
The books get longer, but the series slows down a lot as the books get on. I think the whole chronology of the series is only something like 3-4 years. I think the trouble will be keeping it from feeling like a clip show of events. It was one of my few complaints with Jackson's Lord of the Rings adaptation. His travel montages failed to convey the long passages of time it took for the Fellowship to cross Middle-Earth. I could see a similar problem happening in Wheel of Time.
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The first four books could probably be done as seasons. after that you might be doing 2 books per season. Book 10 can be boiled down to a 5 minute montage of everyone looking at a giant light in the sky and going "Oh _______"
Norse is right, Book 10 is pretty...light on plot. Thick on the wording.
But honestly I think the first 4-5 should probably be series. Book 7 they might condense down with book 8.
thejeff,
I know but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the idea of it. I mean people enjoyed the Battle of the Blackwater right? This for me is my scene.
As a long time and partial lapsed fan, I'm still jazzed by the series as the concepts, not so much the writing. Or even some of the characters. (Padan Fain deserved better.) But regardless, I'm glad to see it come to at least have people experience what it was I saw when Rand touched the Eye, or when Matt blew the Horn, or Perrin ran with the wolves.
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Big,
Eh... I'm just not convinced the Horn is as powerful as people think it is...
I mean why couldn't it summoned Thor? Or Superman?
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Big,
Eh... I'm just not convinced the Horn is as powerful as people think it is...
I mean why couldn't it summoned Thor? Or Superman?
Thor's busy
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The first four books could probably be done as seasons. after that you might be doing 2 books per season. Book 10 can be boiled down to a 5 minute montage of everyone looking at a giant light in the sky and going "Oh _______"
So true. That book actually had a great prologue chapter and epilogue chapter.
It was just that EVERY chapter in between was radioactive hot garbage.
Big,
You make a good point.
Jason,
Yep. I wasn't fan of Crossroads AT ALL! I mean I got through Path of Daggers and wasn't happy. But Crossroads was WORSE!
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I would also be nominally concerned about what direction the producers take it. If it tries to be a Game of Thrones clone, I expect most of the females in the series to be rudely exploited. Jordan included plenty of nudity in the books, but I'm not sure it was ever meant to be titillating. All of the actual hook-ups were done "off-camera." So, I guess we'll see.
Just about all female characters in TWoT are rudely exploited, just by other women rather than by men usually. And the nudity is sexual in some ways, even if most of them were probably subconscious for the author. Let's put it this way: men never spank each other in the books, almost never go nude, and for the most part don't fuss about appearance all that much. Women? that's about 84% of what they do in this series. I'm really not even exaggerated. Is there a female character who hasn't either spanked or been spanked by another? I'd be surprised if there was. It's like a considerably more fun version of the Bachdel test, which these books pass with flying colors.
So, yeah, Jordan has some baggage there that they seriously need to drop for the televised version.
As for number of books per season - first four and maybe last three can/should be seasons of their own. Entire middle of series needs to be compressed into a couple of seasons at most, in my opinion. You would lose surprisingly little by doing this, I believe.
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The women were great for 4 books. Moraine was cool, competent and serene. Nynaeve tracked down a warder (twice), broke Egwene out of the most heavily guarded building in an invaded town, Won a magic battle by kicking a _______ in the ________. She had a temper from dealing with incompetent idiots but backed it by being competent enough to justify it.
...and then they just all broke down into random nakedness and braid pulling and naked braid pulling.
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...and then they just all broke down into random nakedness and braid pulling and naked braid pulling.
They did smooth their skirts when they grew tired of pulling their braids.
Yeah the women in the story became...more annoying as the series progressed.
Which is sad but as you said, Moraine was easily the most competent of them. Nyvaeve, while annoying, at least had skills. Regardless...this is STILL something I'm looking forward to.
Jeff,
Probably but who knows. I do think they'll still make Lan be Lan. I hope?
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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When Crossroads first came out, I read through it and I was thinking, "That's it? I waited three years to get this?" I couldn't believe how little happened in that book. It doesn't help that so much is dedicated to That One Plotline.
I've heard that Jordan admitted he was trying for something different with CoT and it didn't end up working. He would have done things differently in hindsight.
That having been said, it's not nearly so bad when you can just consider it a long prologue to book 11. Having nothing happen and knowing there was a multi-year wait for anything to happen was much worse.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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It also didn't help that it came on the heels of one of the most mind-blowing climaxes not just in this series but in ANY fantasy novel I've ever read. The first 3/4 of Winter's Heart was fine but unspectacular, but that ending.
Oh.
My.
Goodness.
So you're coming off that high thinking, "Geez, what happens NEXT?"
Then you read the prologue chapter, either when you get the book or even a few months early when they released it on the website, and you are completely hyped. "WOW, this is an event with WORLDWIDE repercussions. This is gonna be AWESOME!"
And then you get the book and you are slogging through chapter after tedious chapter and wondering "WTF? Malden? Alum salts? Elayne's pregnant and she has an evil stalker? Faile and the Shaido? Who the bleep cares... when do we get back to the story?"
And it NEVER happens. You're sitting there at the end of the book wondering what the bleep it is you just read. Then the epilogue tells you things *are* actually happening, but you're already numb from the last 800 pages of nothing.
Book 11 didn't start off so hot either, but partway through you at least could see that Jordan remembered who the main character of the story was, and without moving Rand's story everything else is just a stagnant circle-jerk. The ending of 11 is pretty cathartic, for us as readers as well as for Rand. It was a point of release. And really, if you're going to have the author die before the series ends, that was about as good a point as any for it to happen. The ship had been righted, and the final arc was ready to begin in earnest.
I'm with Jason, it was pretty sad to wait for movement after Winter's Heart's ending. It wasn't the BEST ending but it was something extremely memorable after waiting that long after Path of Daggers.
Then came the wait for CoT...and then Knife of Dreams. So...yeah.
I'd imagine that if it's successful and gets a full run, 7 seasons is probably the most you can expect of the series. It's hard to get actors to commit to much more than that, and after 5 years their salaries go up. Not to mention if it follows the trend from GoTs, later seasons are going to progressively get more and more expensive to produce.
The secondary ending.. just didn't fit the setting.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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The secondary ending.. just didn't fit the setting.
** spoiler omitted **
I'm okay with it...First, there's action economy. Sure, a full circle can rewrite geography, but they can really only pay attention to one thing at a time. In a mass battle, concentrating all your force like that might not be the best tactic when your opponent has a similar number of channelers.
Second, Demandred wanted to win, but he wanted to demonstrate superiority over Lews Therin more. Demy wanted LTT to know he had been beaten and by whom. "Nuke from orbit" doesn't allow that.
Second, Demandred wanted to win, but he wanted to demonstrate superiority over Lews Therin more. Demy wanted LTT to know he had been beaten and by whom. "Nuke from orbit" doesn't allow that.
Just slice a laser beam in a diagonal accross the bottom and topple it. he comes out to save them or they all die...
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The secondary ending.. just didn't fit the setting.
** spoiler omitted **
Generally speaking, the channelers suffered a major nurf in the Sanderson novels. After the series starts with descriptions of how in the old wars the world was being torn to pieces on a regular basis, and after Rand showed he is more than capable of giving the odd mountain a shake or two, we had battles with hundreds of channelers that were actually survivable for the mortals in a thousand kilometer radius.
The women were great for 4 books. Moraine was cool, competent and serene. Nynaeve tracked down a warder (twice), broke Egwene out of the most heavily guarded building in an invaded town, Won a magic battle by kicking a _______ in the ________. She had a temper from dealing with incompetent idiots but backed it by being competent enough to justify it.
...and then they just all broke down into random nakedness and braid pulling and naked braid pulling.
Moiraine was and remains my favorite character from the series (followed by Rand and Cadsuane) specifically because she was always above the stupid, stupid, stupid squabbling everyone else spent 90% of their time on. Nynaeve thought... she may be my most hated fictional character of all time. She was awful from about the second book onwards. I was rooting for the bad guys at some points along the story just in the hopes that if the world is destroyed she doesn't make it.
caster martial disparity: the plot nerfing.
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Wheel of Time TV series... dunno... the first book was ok about 20 years ago... not sure how well this would translate into a show... I guess, as you move to book 2 and 3 and onwards, there IS a lot going on a the same time, so you'll have scenes going back and forth between various groups. Kinda like GoT I guess?
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Spoilers a plenty here so I've hidden. Even though I would assume most people posting on a WOT topic years before TV release must have read the books.
Regarding the Shadar Lorgoth Battle:
For me Wheel of Time has more moments of awesomeness then any other book or set of books I've read. When then they happen they actually bring tears of sheer exhilaration to my eyes. I can forgive the shawl adjusting and someone reparative gender stereotypes because he manages to create something so vivid and deep that when the foundations of the world get shaken you recognize that truly momentous things are happening. That level of investment is built up over the series because of its depth.
Truly awesome stuff. I just hope they do it well. For me Dumai's Wells could be the most incredible moment in TV much better than the shock tactics of GOT. The build up to that scene is palpable and torturous and the release is ecstatic! Some really clever structure there!
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Sword,
See! I knew someone understood my love of this series! THANK YOU!
Also just because they nuked Shadar Logath from orbit...sort of...doesn't mean they could have done it later after Rand kind of NUKED the nuke.
But yeah I do agree that Sanderson kind of nerfed channeling.
I still remember meeting Robert Jordan at Balticon 30. He told one person that Callendor was like a nuclear strike. While the Choedan Kal (those huge statues) were like a solar flare strike. So yeah...it's hard but I've LOVE to see that kind of power again.
Shadar logoth was fine .
it was a later fighte where the battle should have been brightlight fade to black.
thejeff,
Maybe but I felt like someone (perhaps RJ's widow) was telling them to tone it down.
Biggie,
I might have to go back because after book 11 my memory gets a little fuzzy...
I think that chanelling Choedan Kal level power was kinda risky, and time consuming. Every time I recall it being used it took a long time and a lot out of the person. Not what you want in the battle situation.
Other "moments of awesome" for me.
Egwene using Vora's Wand to defend the tower. Oh and Egwene refusing to call Elaida Mother, to the point of stilling!
The fall of Suian Sanche the battle with the warders, in particular Gawain killing Hammar.
Matt fighting the Gholam.
Nyneave healing Logain
Perrin defending Two Rivers - in fact that whole section.
Matt rescuing Moiraine from the snakes and moiraine appearing in the command tent! So awesome.
I love Egwenes testing to the ring - in fact all the testings are heartbreaking.
Finding out Thom was still alive.
Loial and Gaul closing the manetheran gate and loial carrying Gaul on his back chased by trolloca.
Matt blowing the horn
Rands first fight with a heron marked blade master.
And probably the most moving piece in the whole book - the Rhuidean columns where at The fall of Tsora ten thousand of the true Aiel hold hands and sing to remind a male Aes Sedai who he was as the citizens escape. How that inverted the whole concept of Aiel and tinkers and adding so much richness to that culture, explained the bleakness, the reason chiefs don't return etc etc. it blew my mind.
I could go on and on. In fact I need to just go back and go through again. I have the unabridged audio books and they're perfect to listen to while painting.
To me the Last Battle I'm book 14 was one if the greatest things I ever read. A chapter as long as some books!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Spoilers a plenty here so I've hidden. Even though I would assume most people posting on a WOT topic years before TV release must have read the books.
Regarding the Shadar Lorgoth Battle:
** spoiler omitted **
For me Wheel of Time has more moments of awesomeness then any other book or set of books I've read. When then they happen they actually bring tears of sheer exhilaration to my eyes. I can forgive the shawl adjusting and someone reparative gender stereotypes because he manages to create something so vivid and deep that when the foundations of the world get shaken you recognize that truly momentous things are happening. That level of investment is built up over the series because of its depth.
Truly awesome stuff. I just hope they do it well. For me Dumai's Wells could be the most incredible moment in TV much better than the shock tactics of GOT. The build up to that scene is palpable and torturous and the release is ecstatic! Some really clever structure there!
** spoiler omitted **
100% agree, and in fact when I was halfway through your post that was the precise moment I thought of.
Add a soaring musical cue and O. M. G.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I think that chanelling Choedan Kal level power was kinda risky, and time consuming. Every time I recall it being used it took a long time and a lot out of the person. Not what you want in the battle situation.
Other "moments of awesome" for me.
** spoiler omitted **
I could go on and on. In fact I need to just go back and go through again. I have the unabridged audio books and they're perfect to listen to while painting.
There are fair complaints to be made about the series and being overstuffed with characters, dead-end plotlines, and sniffing, tugging, adjusting, spanking, and all the rest.
But the highs are so incredibly, unbelievably high.
I'd add the whole final sections of Shadow Rising, Fires of Heaven, and Lord of Chaos to the epic awesomeness list. So much good stuff.
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I agree with a lot of the points here, but even the last few books had a number of WOW moments for me:
- When Demandred arrived with the army of Sharans through the massive gateway that spread across the battlefield. I really have an epic picture in my head of that moment.
- The closing of the Bore. I really liked the description of Rand weaving closed the hole in the Dark One's prison.
I finished the series last year, and those are the two that still stick out in my mind. Maybe that's not much, but they were satisfying to me.
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I agree, the series suffers from long periods where you don't find out what's happening to x character as well. All the above issues can be picked up by a good director and actors I reckon.
I think what I find interesting compared to Game of Thrones is where in that series it seems like everyone apart from the starks are effectively greedy, selfish sons-o-b~%!~es, in Wheel of time there is generally a lot more positivity. People don't need to die every five minutes to maintain shock factor. Don't get me wrong I love game of thrones but I find WOT far more satisfying (and less emotionally traumatic) to read.
Also let's not forget that pretty much everything Matt does from Fires of Heaven onwards is just awesome. Freaking Awesome. The medalion, the ashanderai, the hat... everything! He also has the best prophecy I've ever seen. "To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons. To die and live again, and live once more as part of what was. Give up half the light of the world to save the other half!" Delivered as the Aelfinn are carrying him along above their heads to throw him back out of the gateway. He he
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Matt ended up being my favorite character :-)
Matt was my favorite from the beginning. Who they cast as Mat will probably determine if I like the show or not.
Since we are talking about quotes and OMGAWESOME moments, AMOL has imho one of the finest quotes and I'm going to paraphrase it here.
"Who says that all heroes must be men?"
If my memory serves me, that's Hopper responding to the Horn of Valere.
I'm a big softy and that quote made me tear up....still does. But to be fair, it wasn't just the quote it was the subtext, what was happening at the time and it was Hopper who I fell in love with back in 1996 when I read Eye of the World.
Moiraine's telling of the story of Manetheren's fall (which also serves as a masterclass in how to break the "show-don't-tell" rule).
Perrin seeing all the Emond's Fielders who doesn't die at the battle against the trollocs in Fires of Heaven.
RAAAAAHVIIIIIN!!! (Also in Fires of Heaven.
Pretty much all of The Great Hunt
The supergirls and assorted channelers fleeing Ebou Dar with the Seanchan bearing down on them right after having used the Bowl of Winds at the opening of Path of Daggers and Aviendha having to pick apart the gate weave without leaving a readable trace.
Rand's trip to Rhuidean.
I only wish they'd gotten someone who's better at putting together pretty prose to finish the series. The final book in particular became a bit of a slog for me. And Sanderson never really managed to get Mat right.