Advice for Axe-throwing Slayers?


Advice


Hey there all, first time poster and beginner in Pathfinder or table-top RPG games in general.

I really could use some advice.

In a campaign I've decided to roll with a Slayer that primarily uses Throwing Axes to deal its damage if Sneak Attacks are not an option.

This was inspired due to his relatively low HP (I have 14 hp now due to unfortunate rolls) and the fact that I wanted to base it off Draven from League of Legends and Troll axe throwers from Warcraft.

The general idea of it is that I throw my axes, jump in to retrieve them and then have some form of damage as I retreat to repeat the process, up until I'm able to secure a kill or attack safely (pinned down targets or they are too pre-occupied to notice me).

However, due to the nature of our campaign, I also need to be quite stealthy. I'm basically a saboteur(I have to dispatch certain people or poison supply caches before we fight to gain an advantage).

I feel Mobility (+4AC to Attacks of Opportunity if I leave threat range) is at least one feat I should take to make sure my escape is as safely as possible.

We also have a wizard, a barbarian and a ranger in our group.

We are at Level 3 so far and the gm will most likely not allow "Returning" weapons to be bought or found any time soon so I'll probably have to focus on Feats and Slayer Talents instead.

My Character as follows:

We went for a roll-for-stats instead of a Point-buy system for our ability scores

STR 9
DEX 16
CON 10
INT 13
WIS 17
CHA 12

This includes Racials.

1st Level Feat: Weapon Finesse
2nd Level Slayer talent: Ranger Combat Style: Two-weapon Combat
3rd Level feat: to be determined

I feel like Thrown Weapon combat-style doesn't really add alot of use to the fact of... thrown weapon combat.
Or at least not the kind I'm going for as most of it is useful only when you want to throw while in threat range of someone else.

I do have the option to change it until I reach level 6 (GM's words not mine).

So the concept:
- Has to throw Axes
- Mobility and survivability in feats and talents.
- Pounce attacks? or something to deal damage as I jump towards someone.
- A 3rd weapon specifically designed to fight with (if 2 throwing axes have left my hands, as I try to retrieve them.)
- Least amount (1 or 2 extra) of Multi-classing if possible but I wont exclude it.
- Does NOT need to EXCEL in combat in terms of damage, just enough to wittle enemies down or incapacitate them while the party deals with them, stealthy approaches and sabotaging enemy camps and forward bases is still priority number 1. However that does not mean that I don't want to optimize him for the job he's supposed to do:
Ranged Damage when noticed, Stealthy approach otherwise.

A few details that might inspire ideas:

- My character grew up in a harsh natural environment and personality wise is quite savage depending on the situation.
It wont stray from dirty tricks or gouging an eye when given the chance.
As such, builds featuring natural attacks or bestial behaviour as an emergency exit are welcomed.

- We play an Evil campaign and serve a giant demon landcrab.

- While we are Evil, the character is not necesarrily someone to abandon its teammates. Partners in crime as you will.

- I speak 2 languages, and common isn't one of them. Most of our encounters and conversations so far have been surviving off our Sense-motive checks to understand what I'm suggesting.

I am truly grateful for any and all tips or critizism you may give me.

P.S.: If this is not the place for these threads then I apologize but I found no better suited place myself.


Ugh... I am definitely not a fan for using thrown weapons, especially ones with a bit of weight, on a character with very low strength. Truth be told, I would rather suggest going with a class that can use this very high wisdom, maybe like a warpriest. The thing is, with 3 weapons and a chain shirt you are already likely encumbered, so it is going to be quite hard if you cannot juggle scores and change the class.

Ranged attacks can be powerful, but it is a very feat intensive style. If you do damage at ranged, point blank shot, precise shot and deadly aim need to come pretty early, and two-weapon fighting is pretty important as well. Quick draw will also be important, for obvious reasons.

The thing is, I cannot really recommend this character class with these stats and this style. To be quite honest a wisdom-based character with 6 or 9 level spells (i.e. druid, shaman, inquisitor, warpriest/cleric) would work better. Starting with deadly aim and point-blank shot is not a bad idea, but even then, you can only take this character so far.


Title wrote:
Advice for Axe-throwing Slayers?

Axe-chucks, yo!


The Shaman wrote:

Ugh... I am definitely not a fan for using thrown weapons, especially ones with a bit of weight, on a character with very low strength. Truth be told, I would rather suggest going with a class that can use this very high wisdom, maybe like a warpriest. The thing is, with 3 weapons and a chain shirt you are already likely encumbered, so it is going to be quite hard if you cannot juggle scores and change the class.

Ranged attacks can be powerful, but it is a very feat intensive style. If you do damage at ranged, point blank shot, precise shot and deadly aim need to come pretty early, and two-weapon fighting is pretty important as well. Quick draw will also be important, for obvious reasons.

The thing is, I cannot really recommend this character class with these stats and this style. To be quite honest a wisdom-based character with 6 or 9 level spells (i.e. druid, shaman, inquisitor, warpriest/cleric) would work better. Starting with deadly aim and point-blank shot is not a bad idea, but even then, you can only take this character so far.

The problem is that during character creation we had to choose our class before we got to rolling for ability scores (the DM is rather fond of RNG and doesnt want us to have high rolls for the first part of the campaign for comedic effect.)

I'm pretty much stuck with it until it dies, I don't like this either but I'm really feeling I should at least make an effort to make it sort of work.

Encumberment is mostly not a problem, (the DM ignores this until we hit ridiculous amounts like 50 lbs over the maximum)

While I agree with you for the most part on that I had to go for a different class, I'm also inclined to try anyway and resist the tyranny of this DM (as much as we are friends with him. :P)


Thrown weapon builds are incredibly difficult to do well, and require you to be a Fighter (or have Fighter Weapon Training) or use a blink back belt. Even returning weapons don't really work well since they return at the end of your turn, not after your attack.

With those stats and the class you have....I think an archery build is going to be better, but it's going to be difficult no matter what.


An attack (or two at -2) for 1d6-1 damage - OK, straight 1d6 if you activate studied target - is pretty terrible. That's 'please stay out of combat so we don't waste healing on you' if there's anyone in the party with an 18 strength.

If you're set on two axes then there's not a lot you can do to get around it either. Sliding Axe Throw isn't good but it does give you something which isn't damage to do. Piranha Strike raises your damage a little. Point Blank Shot opens up other ranged feats, it's a better bonus than piranha tho' only at range, and you're going to need it sooner or later if you're fighting at range.

If you're willing to switch to pure archery life's going to be easier in a few levels. The thrown style isn't going to get any easier.

Mobility would be nice but you're going to need your feats for other stuff. Put that idea on ice.


Eugh.

My recommendation is you take a long, hard look at the throwing axes. I occasionally pick up a throwing weapon on a martial character, but its really only to give me an option if I can't reach an enemy with a better attack I specialized for. Throwing weapons have pitiful range and you'll take a -1 penalty to damage for your 9 strength on your 1d4 small sized axe. Additionally, this build only begins becoming viable as you dump feat after feat into a ranged chain with no payoff. If you're dead set on doing this, I would make it an action when you have absolutely nothing better to do in combat.

You can use your slayer talent to pick up a Exotic Weapon Prof. - Net. Entangled is a nice debuff for a martial character to be able to toss on people.

The way I see it, you absolutely need to be maxing your Acrobatics, Bluff, and Stealth skills. These skills best set you up for being able to perform sneak attacks, which is the chief way you'll be dealing damage as a Slayer. Acrobatics is pretty straightforward for allowing you to move to set up flanks in combat, but Bluff is useful for both Feinting (look it up if you're not familiar) and setting up sneak attacks from dialogue. Stealth is also obvious, but also allows you to do cute things like palm daggers, walk up to someone, and casually sneak attack.

Two Weapon Fighting isn't a great style in my opinion but for a dex build with sneak attack there isn't really a better option. Again, use this to take full advantage of your sneak attacks, but remember you need a full round action to make both attacks without the benefit of Pounce.

I'm late for bed so I think I'll leave the rest to you. Best of luck!


You could make an OK Slayer with those stats in melee, but throwing weapons... that's almost as brutal as creating a Wizard that doesn't have enough intelligence to cast his spells. Deadly Aim is the only way to really add much to damage, but then you're taking a double penalty from Deadly Aim and two-weapon on a build where accuracy is already not great.

If I had to make an effective Slayer with those stats I'd probably go for one level of Urban Barbarian and some Extra Rage for the +4DEX and Furious weapon, pick the Two-Handed style to get Power Attack and maybe Great Cleave without the prerequisites, and then grab a rapier with Fencing Grace or something similar.


As a DPR based combatant I would suggest you up your constitution to 14 at a minimum. That would give you more hit points, and if you do anything meaningful the enemies will attack you. Those +'s add up over several levels. You also have low strength so that also hampers you.

PS: If your GM is not going to allow you to rework(not reroll) your ability scores then finding a way to get dex to damage and/or going with a ranged style such as archery will likely be better. Throwing weapons are more feat intensive than archery and TWF if you want to be decent at it.


Wachow wrote:
I'm pretty much stuck with it until it dies, I don't like this either but I'm really feeling I should at least make an effort to make it sort of work.

Well, you can, but tbh I am not keen on thrown weapons with these stats. Can you multiclass :P ?

If no, archery or even crossbows (since you are not going to be adding strength to damage any time soon) are a better option for a ranged character.


If you can hand-wave the alignment restriction, Far Strike Monk is a really good 1 level dip for throwing weapons. You can obtain Quick Draw and Precise Shot.

As a level 1 Human FSM, my throwing build has Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw and Dodge, which is nothing to sneeze at. With Flurry of Blows you don't even need to pick up TWF.

Just some food for thought.


Those are some tough restrictions to work with....

Slayer 1 (assumed fixed per character generation rules)
Slayer 2
Swashbuckler 1 (Weapon Finesse for free)
Fighter 1 (Lore Warden archetype)
Fighter 2 (Combat Expertise for free)

Feats:

@ 1st: Weapon Focus: Throwing Ax (1st)
@ 2nd: Precise Shot (slayer talent -> ranger style)
@ 3rd: Weapon Finesse (swashbuckler 1)
@ 3rd: Slashing Grace (3rd)

This will at least get you dex to damage for the throwing axe. You will have one attack per round for 1d6+3 damage.

Take the next couple of levels as fighter (Lore Warden archetype seems a good fit), to get some feats you will need.

@ 4th: Quick Draw (fighter 1)
@ 5th: Combat Expertise (lore warden 2)
@ 5th: Point Blank Shot
@ 5th: Rapid Shot (3rd)

This will give you two attacks per round dealing 1d6+4 damage as a base.

Deadly Aim will soon be needed to keep damage relevant.

NOTE: As a ranged attacker, sneak attack usefulness craters.

(I think Slashing Grace applies no matter if you melee attack or throw that axe, but I'm not 100% certain, someone will note that if it doesn't I hope)

***********************************

EDIT: Another quirky thing you can do is to take levels 4 and 5 as a ninja. This will net you +1d6 sneak attack with a ki pool to get in an extra attack when you can use get that sneak attack. You won't get this often per day, but when you do, you can really hurt a foe really quick.

The best thing here is that you can get that extra attack on a melee attack or a ranged attack.


My most sincere apologies for not replying sooner, my week has been crazy!
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I think I can use a little something from all of you :)

I've decided in the end that indeed Archery has now become my main focus whilst keeping an eye on my melee capabilities on the side(since DEX is the best stat to build my character around.)

The idea of Palm Daggering casual peasants was also one of my favorite options to consider when deciding on class so I shall indeed try to look into Acrobatics/bluff/stealth sneak attacks.

I'll look into the multiclass dips some of you have suggested. Since I'm still a beginner I'm not sure I can handle something as "Complicated" as multiclassing yet but I might as well give it a try while I'm at it.

I have much to learn and I can imagine it takes a great deal of patience to deal with these kind of questions and restrictions.

Thank you all so much!

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