May I ask, what is your opinion of a Combat Druid taking Ice Armor? This seems like a boon for a first level front-liner; does it make sense to take this over CLW? What might your general opinion be of this spell for Combat Druids before Wildshape?
Thank you for your consideration.
The Other
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May I ask, what is your opinion of a Combat Druid taking Ice Armor? This seems like a boon for a first level front-liner; does it make sense to take this over CLW? What might your general opinion be of this spell for Combat Druids before Wildshape?
Iffy, especially at first level.
Requires a full minute to cast, which makes it entirely impractical once combat has started. If not submersed in water when cast, has the additional delay issue of requiring normal donning for medium armor (4 minutes, or 1 minute hastily donned).
It has a fixed hardness of 0 and a fixed HP of 30, so it's extremely vulnerable to sunder maneuvers. It also loses armor value when damaged by fire.
It also doesn't grant any proficiency with the armor, which isn't a huge issue, but could be problematic depending on circumstances.
Beyond that, it is basically free medium armor that doesn't penalize druids, so it is nifty there.
Now, for a support character, this is actually pretty awesome, as it allows you to create armor on the fly for party members that lack it. There are certainly some opponents where having that ice breastplate would be pretty sweet, even if the character wouldn't normally wear such armor. If you notice, there isn't a limit on how many suits you can make at once, so you could have an entire party in your icy breastplate should you have a situation where that made sense.
Murdock, thank you kindly for your reply.
Your points are insightful and well-taken. Perhaps Ice Armor is best prepared on the eve of a likely static encounter; that is to say, Ice Armor could be memorized on the night before a combat event preceded by a location where said armor can be donned safely, after which the dungeon door could be opened, as it were.
If one is facing wandering monster checks along the road all day, say, then Ice Armor isn't so hot at all.
Would you concur?
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Murdock, thank you kindly for your reply.
Your points are insightful and well-taken. Perhaps Ice Armor is best prepared on the eve of a likely static encounter; that is to say, Ice Armor could be memorized on the night before a combat event preceded by a location where said armor can be donned safely, after which the dungeon door could be opened, as it were.
If one is facing wandering monster checks along the road all day, say, then Ice Armor isn't so hot at all.
Would you concur?
Wow, good manners on the internet. Thank you, a refreshing change of pace.
To answer your question. Actual breastplate armor is going to be better in all ways other than cost and weight. And even in cost, the breastplate is probably cheaper in terms of keeping your spell slots free for other things.
The main advantage of the spell is that you can create breastplate when you have none. It does require a focus of 5 gallons of water, but the create water cantrip solves that, so essentially, you can create something from nothing.
It would be useful in situations where your existing armor had already been sundered. When the weight/check penalty of your actual armor required it to be discarded and now you lack armor. It may also have use for giving armor to NPCs or ill-equipped party members in a temporary capacity.
For a front line druid that wants breastplate, I'd get Dragonhide Breastplate if the GM allows it. That's druid friendly breastplate. In PFS, you can get it for 2PP at 1st level (it costs 700gp otherwise).
Now, as a spell for GM minions, this spell is devious. Basically, it means the GM's minions can have good armor and they don't give any GP worth of armor to the players when they die. Kinda mean, in that respect.
I suppose, in a desert setting, the Ice Armor could take on an entirely different context, being a tool for staying cool, hauling water, or a reward for defeating enemies (you get to drink their armor).
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I think the main value of the spell is if special materials for making non-metal armor are hard to come by. Or if you need something now while saving up for that armor you want to spend all your money on.
It could also be used for generating armor for oddly shaped beasties, such as when you're wildshaping into a form you don't have armor handy for.
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It could also be used for generating armor for oddly shaped beasties, such as when you're wildshaping into a form you don't have armor handy for.
Wanders off thinking about a Cool Cat druid build.
That is an interesting point, you could probably make armor for non-humanoids too. Not sure you could don the armor as a non-humanoid, but if submersed in water, that wouldn't be an issue for this spell. Could probably use this spell to generate barding for your companion or for a familiar.
Though that said, the spell is a little vague regarding the size of the armor generated, or what types of creatures can wear it.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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May I ask, what is your opinion of a Combat Druid taking Ice Armor? This seems like a boon for a first level front-liner; does it make sense to take this over CLW? What might your general opinion be of this spell for Combat Druids before Wildshape?
Given its long duration, it's a very good choice for a spell, assuming your regular armor has less AC than a breastplate. Sure, it has some drawbacks, but overall you get a solid AC bonus for a single spell.
Don't prepare CLW, use a wand for that.
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Don't prepare CLW, use a wand for that.
Yeah, gotta say, the mechanics for wands make it much more practical to have a wand for cure spells, than to actually prepare the spells. Kinda sad, I think, but the game mechanics make it very iffy to prepare spells like cure light wounds when you can get 50 castings for a meager 750gp (like 15gp per casting...).
It's actually pretty similar to the Ice armor in that respect. Get that 700gp Dragonhide Breastplate and don't bother relying on Ice Armor, except in special circumstances. Having actual armor is going to be much more practical than this spell, if you have the option for the action armor.
I will note, there's nothing in the spell that suggests Ice armor can be worn in addition to normal armor, so as written, you'd have to remove your normal armor in order to put the Ice Armor on - Unlike mage armor and other spells that just grant an armor bonus and let you use the best bonus.
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Ice Armor is a niche spell that is best used around level 5-8 if you regularly stay in a wild shape combat form rather than change back and forth.
Reasons:
1) Can you cast it while wild shaped:
At level 5 you can take Natural Spell and so casting this spell is not an issue while Wild Shaped.
2) Duration:
The spell lasts as long as your Wild Shape (hours per level) so that isn't an issue.
3) Water:
Via Create Water providing a sufficient quantity of water is a non-issue. Might even be able to purchase some kind of canvas 'tub' to dunk yourself in if the GM allows (allows you to form the armor around you rather than having to have it put on afterwards).
4) An armor type for every form:
Since there is no 'form' limitation on Ice Armor you can create it around any form you happen to be in so you do not need to worry about bringing multiple armor types for different combat forms if you happen to like using more than one.
5) Cost:
At level 5 you only have 10,500gp (assuming WBL). Spending 1400gp on Dragonhide Breastplate non-humanoid armor just for your combat form is a bit on the expensive side. Especially when you are just going to turn around and sell it at level 6 (when you gain access to large combat forms).
Additionally, at level 6 you will need Dragonhide Breastplate non-humanoid armor that costs 2800gp.
Finally, at levels 5-8 it is non-trivial to afford armor with the Wild property (a minimum price tag of 16,000gp +armor costs).
Summary: for a few levels, it definitely has some advantages if you can deal with the minor disadvantages.
Dear all,
Thank you very much for your helpful comments.
If you care to deliberate on the topic any further, I might add that this is not for PFS, rather a homebrew campaign. Thus I am penniless starting out and facing the prospect of proceeding to the front lines with a 16 AC (Hide Armor and +2 DEX), which causes me considerable dismay. At least until I get some cash flow, I was thinking that the added +2 AC of Ice Armor would be enough of a boon to make up for all of the downsides - especially because, if I am unconscious, I cannot use Stabilize nor use my other CLW.
I should add that I am a Shoanti Druid with the Shoanti Tattoo trait, and thus will be wielding an Earth breaker (thereby preventing the use of a shield).
Again, thank you for your consideration.
The Other
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Dear all,
Thank you very much for your helpful comments.
If you care to deliberate on the topic any further, I might add that this is not for PFS, rather a homebrew campaign. Thus I am penniless starting out and facing the prospect of proceeding to the front lines with a 16 AC (Hide Armor and +2 DEX), which causes me considerable dismay. At least until I get some cash flow, I was thinking that the added +2 AC of Ice Armor would be enough of a boon to make up for all of the downsides - especially because, if I am unconscious, I cannot use Stabilize nor use my other CLW.
I should add that I am a Shoanti Druid with the Shoanti Tattoo trait, and thus will be wielding an Earth breaker (thereby preventing the use of a shield).
Again, thank you for your consideration.
The Other
If you want a shield, Thunder and Fang will allow one.
If you want a shield, Thunder and Fang will allow one.
Dear Imbicatus,
Thank you for your reply. Indeed, Thunder and Fang is an attractive option, but as I am first level and will be taking the usual Combat Druid feats, I'm afraid it will be unavailable to me.
Essentially, I am thinking of ways to stay alive on the front lines as a Druid while wielding an Earth breaker, until I get enough money to purchase Dragonhide (providing my GM will make it available).
Regards,
The Other
Yes, as a first-level frontliner, every bit of AC helps. That includes wielding a (wooden) shield as well as the Ice Armor spell, until you get better equipment. The druid does not otherwise have a lot of self-buffs as first-level spells.
Kurald, thank you. Do you think the massive damage of the Earthbreaker (through Shoanti Tattoo trait) warrants foregoing a Heavy Wooden Shield? This is another reason I like Ice Armor.
The Other
That's a matter of playstyle. Personally I prefer investing in defenses more than that; last time I played a first-level druid he did start with 16 dex + ice armor + buckler, for a solid 20 AC.
That makes sense. I think I'll go smashmouth Earthbreaker and Ice Armor and pray we kill things quickly.
Thanks again, all.
The Other
If you've taken, or plan to take scribe scroll, or are willing to buy one, this might be a good spell to carry a scroll or two just in case, but not use your spell slot on it.