The Other's page

Also, you should stop using d20pfsrd.com as a definite rule source. What you quoted is not in any Pathfinder book, but rather taken from the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide.

This is a good point. I usually check d20pfsrd.com's reference, but was sloppy here.

Trigger what exactly? The robe's main ability (spell recall) is activated, not triggered.

This was also sloppy on my part. What I meant was (as Derklord noted): does Spellstrike count as an "attack roll[s] made with spells"? Given that the enhancement bonus doesn't apply, however, this question is irrelevant.

My sense is that robe of runes predates Pathfinder and thus creates some problems. It seems like a Magus could use it to generally good effect while missing out on Spellstrike application. Given the paucity of strong body slot items and the added advantage of freeing up the headband slot, robe of runes seems quite nice overall.

Do you mean, does the robe's bonus on attack rolls with spells stack with the bonus on the magic weapon you're using to spellstrike with? No, both are enhancement bonuses, so they don't stack.

I actually meant does Spellstrike trigger the robe, which I take it you believe it does. Now that you mention it, however, I wonder about the enhancement bonus; I of course see what you mean, but could it be that the bonuses are to different "objects," and therefore would stack?

Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack.

Hi all,

Quick question: does robe of runes work with Spellstrike?

Thank you,
The Other

The thing is that Accurate Strike is for enemies with a massive AC; not for enemies that you hit on a 6+ (and certainly not something to spam every combat). That said, Bane Baldric is a very powerful item.

Your point is well-taken. I suppose considering Accurate Strike in the context of Bane Baldric helped me to understand that AS is more situational than I had thought; I'm uncertain if the situational benefit is desirable enough to warrant the opportunity cost (In the example of the Level 12 Magus referenced above, BB loses ~10 DPR per each additional point of AC faced. I.e. BB is ~160 DPR vs. AC 31, ~150 vs. AC 32, etc.).

However, an important additional consideration (and frankly one I overlooked initially) is the third iterative at Level 15. Here, AS becomes much less situational.

Hi all,

A calculation that some might find useful (I can show more work if anyone would like; this was done with tejon's DPR calculator):

Level 12 Bladebound Magus +24 to hit vs. AC 30, with Rime Frostbite, Haste, BTS, Keen: 131.8 DPR

Same Magus using Accurate Strike: 172.8 DPR

Same Magus activating Bane Baldric: 173.0 DPR

In an already tight swift action economy, this dissuades me from taking Accurate Strike.

That's why they're much too expensive.

Understood. I will move the hands slot further down the priority list. Thank you.

The Other wrote:

Attempting to stay somewhat with the flow of the thread, I wonder what thoughts are on pliant gloves? I didn't see them in the guide.

My main thought is that they're much too expensive. They become available well after the Lunge feat, and the Magus has a lot of competition on swift-action abilities. So I don't think they're a very good pick; I'd rank them yellow.

Thanks for your reply. Do you mean too expensive in terms of PFS?

I should have been more specific. My thinking is that for a dex-based debuffing Magus with Combat Reflexes, any additional reach bonus is a significant boon, as threatened square progression is nonlinear.

Ultimately, I am thinking of Pliant Gloves relative to other hand slot items; I don't see much competition other than Deliquescent Gloves and maybe Gloves of Storing? With prehensile tail, Gloves of Storing seem unnecessary, and while the damage bonus of Deliquescent Gloves is nice, the utility of Pliant Gloves seems preferable in this case.

Attempting to stay somewhat with the flow of the thread, I wonder what thoughts are on pliant gloves? I didn't see them in the guide.

While it is unfortunate that they require a swift action to activate, any item that can nearly replicate a sought-after feat (Lunge) seems fantastic. They also have a useful static bonus (+5 to Escape Artist) and are only competing with a straight damage bonus increase in deliquescent gloves.

Steve Jackson Games has it in pdf for 10 bucks.

Thank you - I think I'll try interlibrary loan.

You need to read "The Quest For The Sacred Meleetah" in P.E.I. Bonewits' Authentic Thaumaturgy. :-) It's about a quest for three or four members of the Javacrucians, a religious cult.

This sounds wonderfully strange. I am in.

take Spell Blending again for HEIGHTENED AWARENESS

This is a fantastic idea, both for flavor and function. As a coffee addict IRL, I am in. I love the idea of my PC having to stop every two hours to make a potent brew. I will take this and Visualization of the Mind with Spell Blending at 12 and retrain Improved Initiative to Combat Reflexes:

1: Weapon Finesse
3: Craft Wondrous Item (Retrain to Lunge)
4: Hex Arcana: Flight
5: Dervish Dance
5: Rime Spell [1]
6: Arcana: Flamboyant Arcana
7: Enforcer
9: Improved Initiative (Retrain to Combat Reflexes)
9: Arcana: Spell Blending (Heroism)
---
11: Empower Spell [2]
11: Dimensional Agility
12: Arcana: Spell Blending (Heightened Awareness, Visualization of the Mind)
13: Quicken Spell [3]
15: Spell Perfection: Frostbite or perhaps Shocking Grasp
15: Arcana: Bane Blade

Good morning, all.

Since you have a Sorcerer, why not get them to cast Heroism on you

I chose not to metagame the Heroism for RP reasons (the Sorcerer is Chaotic Neutral and not really the buffing type - great guy IRL though). The Magus and the Sorcerer weren't really getting along. Also the Sorcerer is quite fond of Fireball.

What kind of builds do your allies have, anyway?

The Ranger is Ranger 6/Unchained Rogue 4, focusing on Master Sniper with Sneak Attack. The Sorcerer is a zany chaotic Arcane Bloodline who now seems to be interested in Possession. I have helped them both with their builds, but let's just say they are not on the Paizo forums discussing the finer points - which of course is quite reasonable.

You can also use it for Quickened Ill Omen to poopify their chance to save against the next thing you or your Sorcerer friend hit them with

I like this idea. Quickened Ill Omen with Dweomer's Essence seems quite nasty to have in reserve.

My bigger worry is enemies that resist cold and/or are immune to nonlethal, hence my suggestion for Elemental Spell (or a rod thereof)

The current plan is to get my hands on lesser Elemental and Piercing rods. These are both very cheap, and with the Tiefling's Vestigial Tail, should be effective. The issue would be if I come up against an undead/cold resist foe with high SR, but I can use Dweomer's Essence in this instance.

Lunge is probably more fun to play with than Imp Init, especially if you're the only frontliner

I felt like getting the debuff up first is important on this character. The Swift Action economy problems persist, of course, but seemed too unwieldy to justify not taking Improved Initiative.

I will vacillate endlessly, I'm sure, but the build is perhaps becoming slightly more clear:

1: Weapon Finesse
3: Craft Wondrous Item (Retrain to Lunge)
4: Hex Arcana: Flight
5: Dervish Dance
5: Rime Spell [1]
6: Arcana: Flamboyant Arcana
7: Enforcer
9: Improved Initiative
9: Arcana: Spell Blending [Heroism]
---
11: Empower Spell [2]
11: Dimensional Agility
12: Arcana: Accurate Strike
13: Quicken Spell [3]
15: Spell Perfection: Frostbite
15: Arcana: Bane Blade

Should I retrain to Combat Reflexes instead and use Long Arm instead of Lunge? This build seems to really want Combat Reflexes.

What about Spell Perfection: Shocking Grasp for Quickened Empowered Shocking Grasp novas?

My save DC seemed too low to justify Ice Tomb.

Thank you, as always.

Oh, my mistake about Stabbing Spell. I am a Tiefling with Prehensile Tail, so metarods can be handy (tailsy).

The swift action economy dilemma is real, though.

I foresee some serious SR coming up in this campaign.

Point taken about Quicken. Some things to consider, for sure.

Again, very much appreciated.

Do we care about getting Spell Pen/Stabbing Spells to take advantage of Spell Perfection for Frostbite? Or do we just ignore and use a Piercing Spell rod and Dweomer's Essence?

My thinking with Quicken is I really want to get the Frostbite debuffs up ASAP if I am using Dimensional Agility. I also like having a Quickened Shocking Grasp in reserve for some nova damage.

Thanks very much for everyone's input.

Thanks very much for your reply, @UnArcaneElection.

The campaign is a three-PC Rise of the Runelords campaign (no spoilers, please). The other PCs are a sorcerer and a ranger/unchained rogue sniper. I am the sole melee combatant.

The PC is already level 10 (began at 8), so the ordering of the early feats is cosmetic.

Empower Spell is for Frostbite.

I took Spell Blending (Heroism) because I wanted it ASAP.

Good catch on Intimidate; I changed it to Int.

"Page-Bound Epiphany (Not in SB)" is my reminder to dock my arcane pool when I prepare it because it is not in my spell book.

Hi all,

I hope everyone is doing well enough. There's been a bit of a lull here, so I thought it might be acceptable to ask for some build advice.

This is the same PC I've mentioned previously. Level 10 Bladebound/Hexcrafter Frostbite magus.

This is a three-PC Rise of the Runelords campaign (no spoilers please).

1: Weapon Finesse
3: Craft Wondrous Item (Retrain to one of the mentioned feats)
4: Hex Arcana: Flight
5: Dervish Dance
5: Rime Spell [1]
6: Arcana: Flamboyant Arcana
7: Enforcer
9: Improved Initiative 
9: Arcana: Spell Blending [Heroism]
---
11: Empower Spell [2]
11: Dimensional Agility? Iron Will? Additional Traits (Stabbing Spells/Reactionary)? Lunge? Combat Reflexes?
12: Arcana: Accurate Strike? Spell Blending?
13: Quicken Spell [3]
15: Spell Perfection: Frostbite
15: Arcana: Bane Blade 

Thank you in advance.

Yes, I should have mentioned Bladed Dash as well - Storm Step when there are multiple targets or the target is out of Bladed Dash range.

Sometimes it could be a bad idea to be behind a barrier far away from my party.

The flexibility is undeniable, but it seems perhaps too situational to take up a coveted feat spot. I'm not sure.

Could it be argued that Dimensional Agility is overkill? How many times will 50' storm step not be sufficient, so as to make taking an entire feat, using a higher level spell slot, and forgoing 22 damage the better choice?

Thanks again, @avr. That's a handy resource. I think I'll do saves and the bracers next.

Thank you. I have to optimize because we are a three-person party and the other two PCs are not optimized much at all.

I do have +7 to Dex, so the celestial armor gets me +3 off the bat. But I'd need to upgrade the dex belt to get the full +8 bonus.

I was thinking I need to be more wary of saves. Debuffs/mirror image/shield/displacement/flamboyant arcana have been sufficient in the little experience I have so far to mitigate most physical damage.

I was thinking it might be wise to get the cloak up to +5 and get the +1 ioun stone, for a total of 12k.

Does that makes sense, do you think? Here is my character sheet, if anyone is interested.

Thank you, @avr. I think that is a good call. What would you go for after the bracers?

Hi all,

What do you think should be my next priority upgrade on this gear list? Should I save for celestial armor, or focus on my saves first? Or other ideas?

This is for a three-person Rise of the Runelords campaign where my character is both the primary single target damage dealer and the "tank." Other PCs are a ranger and a sorcerer.

Both this PC and the sorcerer have Craft Wondrous Item.

Thank you, my internet friends.

May I ask, does anyone have a FAQ or something convincing for a ruling on the use of Demoralize on animals/creatures that can't understand you?

My GM has ruled that if the creature can't understand me, I can't intimidate it, which is fine, but I thought I might try and convince him otherwise, seeing as how I have partially built this character around it.

Many thanks.

Excellent point, MrCharisma. I hadn't thought of that.

Yes, Flamboyant Arcana is more about offense in my mind.

You just have to beat their roll, which should work pretty well if you have a high initiative and are debuffing.

I truly appreciate all of the help. I feel like the Magus class is designed for true Pathfinder nerds, like me.

I will confer with my GM about Dervish Dance and buckler usage.

Slashing Grace is not Dervish Dance.

Slashing Grace doesn't work with Spell Combat because Slashing Grace says: "You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied."

Meanwhile Dervish Dance CAN be use with Spell Combat because it has different text: "You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand."

You can see that these feats have different restrictions, and while Dervish dance doesn't prohibit Spell Combat it does completely nix the use of any shields.

I agree that Slashing Grace and Dervish Dance are different, but from what I have read so far, it does not yet seem clear to me that Dervish Dance prevents use of a buckler. This thread has it very open to interpretation, especially with the dev comment.

This buckler issue may be something that becomes more about semantics (e.g. "held in the hand" vs. "carrying," etc), in which case there may be little value in attempting to derive a convincing generalization.

Kurald, do you have a take on the Dervish Dance/buckler issue?

Also, duly noted on Quicken Spell and swift actions. The good thing is I will get a chance to play with this character a bit before I have to make those decisions (starting at Level 8).

Understood, too, about the Accurate Strike issue - I actually sort of changed my mind on that. Still not sure of its value, given the action economy and existing DPR. Distracted by the upcoming Red Sox game, but still valuing very much everyone's input, and I hope this post was cogent enough.

I appreciate very much the feedback and will post more when I have more time, but just quickly for now, my understanding is that one can use a buckler with Dervish Dance. We have the FAQ from Slashing Grace.

I am mulling over Spell Perfection/Quicken Spell. I could see it coming in very handy with Dimensional Agility: Spell Combat, teleport to outside BBEG's reach (ideally), swift action quickened empowered rime frostbite, 5-foot step, Spellstrike iteratives.

I am of course dismayed by the swift action logjam. Does anyone have play experience with this?

I am intrigued by using my 5th level slots for maximized empowered vampiric touch (in addition to the customary overland flight) with a piercing metamagic rod, and then putting a maximized vampiric touch in my mithral buckler +X of spell storing.

Does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions in this vein? Here is the build I am working on, for reference. This is a Rise of the Runelords campaign, so I'm assuming we will finish around Level 15/16 (no spoilers please!):

1: Weapon Finesse
3: Craft Wondrous Item (Retrain to Spell Penetration?)
4: Hex Arcana: Flight
5: Dervish Dance
5: Rime Spell [1]
6: Arcana: Flamboyant Arcana
7: Enforcer
9: Improved Initiative
9: Arcana: Accurate Strike?
11: Empower Spell [2]
11: Dimensional Agility
12: Arcana: Spell Blending (Heroism, Greater Resist Energy)
13: Maximize Spell? [3]
15: Spell Perfection: Vampiric Touch
15: Arcana: Bane Blade

Points well-taken. There is always the option of retraining as well.

I have been trying to avoid myself for years, with mixed results.

A further thought: Flamboyant Arcana and Quickened Spell work very poorly together. It probably makes sense to retrain Flamboyant Arcana when you get Quickened Spell. Or just avoid one or the other altogether.

A new observation: Bane Blade essentially renders Accurate Strike obsolete. The Magus is much better served using the two pool points to add bane with all the other enhancements with her swift action, instead of forgoing all of those bonuses to make each attack hit. The AC would have to be extremely high to make Accurate Strike worthwhile, and that seems like too much of a niche case, as Accurate Strike only lasts for one round! Not sure it is worth investing in Accurate Strike if it will become obsolete later on.

A DPR calculation for a 9th level Hexcrafter Bladebound Magus vs. CR 12 creature, assuming Spell Combat, 5 ft. step, Spellstrike, no cold or nonlethal immunity or resistance:

Swift action Arcane Pool (1 AP), +5 keen black blade scimitar, haste, blade tutor’s spirit, empowered rime frostbite, free action Black Blade Strike vs. AC 26 = 38.27+38.27+32.71+19.95 = 129.2 DPR (this calculation takes into account the Dexterity penalties from entangled and fatigued)

Swift action Accurate Strike (2 AP), +3 black blade scimitar, haste, blade tutor’s spirit, empowered rime frostbite, free action Black Blade Strike vs. Touch AC 12 = 40.70+40.70+40.70+40.70 = 162.8 DPR

A brief takeaway from this is the value of Accurate Strike and the importance of managing the Magus's Arcane Pool for its use. Relatedly, the average CR 12 creature has 157.6 hit points.

Two observations from working on a HexBlade (Hexcrafter/Bladebound) Magus:

1) Initiative is great for Rime Frostbite; the debuffing Magus wants to go first.

2) Flamboyant Arcana loves a high initiative, debuffing Magus.

Thank you, sincerely! This last week has been a lot of fun learning about the magus, and most of that is because of your great work.

Hi all,

Would you agree that Combat Reflexes/Flamboyant Arcana and Aerial Roll is overkill? Seems like the first is more powerful, though curious what others think.

I'm doing the usual toying with builds with ye olde Tiefling Hexblade. I am starting at 8th level, and so intend to retrain Craft Wondrous Item. I would love your help:

1: Weapon Finesse
3: Craft Wondrous Item (Retrain to Spell Penetration?)
4: Hex: Flight
5: Dervish Dance
5: Rime Spell
6: Arcana: Slumber? (a little cheesy for my taste, but powerful)
7: Enforcer
9: Combat Reflexes
9: Arcana: Flamboyant Arcana
11: Lunge?
11: Benthic Spell/Elemental Spell
12: Arcana: Major Hex: Ice Tomb or Spell Blending
13: Quicken Spell
15: Spell Perfection

Is the Hexblade still cool even without cruel?

Other thoughts?

Thank you for your time.

With best wishes,
The Other

Kadar takes one level of Weapon Master Fighter at seventh level, choosing claw as his weapon. He gains the following feats: Planar Wildshape and Dragon Style.

He puts two skill ranks in Knowledge: Planes for a total of five ranks. One skill rank goes in Perception. Kadar rolls an 8 on a d10 and gains 11 HP (Con and Toughness feat) for a total of 71.

Sweet, looking forward! Good luck with the move and congrats again!!

Any chance we’ve made it to Level 7, Kim?

Any chance we've crested level 7 yet, Kim?

Dromaeosauridae

This campaign is $$$$.

Does the transactional math check out, Kim?

I should also say that I am happy to nerf Kadar (or even roll a new character! - that would be cooler, actually) if it makes life easier or things more enjoyable for anyone.

Here's what I'm thinking for items to sell and expenditures (if I remember correctly, we get 55% on the dollar from Voon? - I'll assume as much). Thoughts?

Sell:

Rod of Wonder (330 pp)
+1 war razor (110 pp)
+1 leather armor (55.5 pp)
adamantine long sword (165.8 pp)
wand of shatter (assuming 50 charges: 247.5 pp)
Ring of Jumping (137.5 pp)
pearl ring (5.5 pp)
ivory bowl with animal carvings (???)

= ~ 1055 pp

Buy:

materials for Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, Kadar (200 pp)
materials to upgrade to Cloak of Resistance +2, Kadar (150 pp)
Charles ritual, Quilmop (120 pp)

Other expenditures?

Also, number of charges on wands of cure light wounds held by Aeryc and Kadar? One has 50, the other, maybe 35ish??

So, subtract the Rod of Wonder from the list - other expenditures or thoughts on items sold?

Here's what I'm thinking for items to sell and expenditures (if I remember correctly, we get 55% on the dollar from Voon? - I'll assume as much). Thoughts?

Sell:

Rod of Wonder (330 pp)
+1 war razor (110 pp)
+1 leather armor (55.5 pp)
adamantine long sword (165.8 pp)
wand of shatter (assuming 50 charges: 247.5 pp)
Ring of Jumping (137.5 pp)
pearl ring (5.5 pp)
ivory bowl with animal carvings (???)

= ~ 1055 pp

Buy:

materials for Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, Kadar (200 pp)
materials to upgrade to Cloak of Resistance +2, Kadar (150 pp)
Charles ritual, Quilmop (120 pp)

Other expenditures?

Also, number of charges on wands of cure light wounds held by Aeryc and Kadar? One has 50, the other, maybe 35ish??

I'm a little confused about the Pathfinder Lodge posts, etc. Is this some part of the Pathfinder lore I'm missing? Can someone give me the gist?

Pathfinder Society

Which is also the name of the organized version of Pathfinder, home to all things min-max: Pathfinder Society