Yes and yes. There's a balor with fighter levels and armor in Demons Revisited.
"Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor."
So, demons that are wearing armour in their statblock are proficient with armour. Otherwise they could spend a feat or get class levels.
Or they could wear armor with no ACP. Leather, MW Studded Leather, Darkleaf Lamellar, Mithral Chain Shirt and Mithral Kikko are all options.
In fact, I can't think of a reason why a Demon shouldn't be wearing Leather Armor at a minimum if reasonably possible. It's cheap, and it gives no penalty beyond a bit of weight.
In fact, I can't think of a reason why a Demon shouldn't be wearing Leather Armor at a minimum if reasonably possible. It's cheap, and it gives no penalty beyond a bit of weight.
Because it chafes, their DR already makes them pretty resistant to their normal threats (other demons), their part of the Abyss may make it rot very quickly. But really, what basis is there for a demonic economy? You're constantly getting ripped off or murdered for your stuff, and no one is producing anything to exchange for other goods.
Hmmm... leather made from the hide of their victims seems very demonically appropriate.
Or they could wear armor with no ACP. Leather, MW Studded Leather, Darkleaf Lamellar, Mithral Chain Shirt and Mithral Kikko are all options.
In fact, I can't think of a reason why a Demon shouldn't be wearing Leather Armor at a minimum if reasonably possible. It's cheap, and it gives no penalty beyond a bit of weight.
Because if you have a non-human form, it cost double (more if bigger than medium).
I suspect many demons don't wear leather because it would combust/disintegrate/split and fall off in the unhospitable conditions.
Plus, why would you wear armour if you had iron hard scales or shell. Why would dragons wear armour?
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I suspect many demons don't wear leather because it would combust/disintegrate/split and fall off in the unhospitable conditions.
Plus, why would you wear armour if you had iron hard scales or shell. Why would dragons wear armour?
Because Pride is a sin.
Overall- giving a class level and then throwing on proper armor is like...the very first and easiest change you can make to a monster in order to buff them up.
As from Demons Revisited, Demons *can* wear armor, it's just that most chose not to or have major issues with it.
A babau needs its armor to resist acid, succubi generally are oppose to hiding their voluptuous figures, glabrezu require very large specially made armor, and hezrou require something that will hold up in swampland.
Now, demons with considerable wealth and a couple class levels may well utilize armor.
A babau may craft black dragonhide armor, a succubi wear a glamoured suit of mail, a glabrezu may have a hulking set of full plate, and a hezrou may have a rustproof breastplate.
However, these are considerable monetary investments, well out of the scope of typical demons.
For most demons, armor is a waste of money anyways; why bother increasing your defense when you can increase your destructive potential?
Weapons and magic items are far more common around demonfolk.
After all, that suit of armor could be a bigger sword instead.
As from Demons Revisited, Demons *can* wear armor, it's just that most chose not to or have major issues with it.
A babau needs its armor to resist acid, succubi generally are oppose to hiding their voluptuous figures, glabrezu require very large specially made armor, and hezrou require something that will hold up in swampland.Now, demons with considerable wealth and a couple class levels may well utilize armor.
A babau may craft black dragonhide armor, a succubi wear a glamoured suit of mail, a glabrezu may have a hulking set of full plate, and a hezrou may have a rustproof breastplate.
However, these are considerable monetary investments, well out of the scope of typical demons.For most demons, armor is a waste of money anyways; why bother increasing your defense when you can increase your destructive potential?
Weapons and magic items are far more common around demonfolk.
After all, that suit of armor could be a bigger sword instead.
Yeah, that is probably the explanation covers most intelligent monsters that lack armor.
It is either too troublesome due to their nature/environment (fire elements burn leather armor, or the attaching bits of metal armors, many monster lack hands to put on armor, etc), or it would be too expensive either for the item itself or for some magic one that breaks through the nature/environment problem.
But for a boss character? Yeah, they may have the funds to deal with costs and the minions to deal with troublesome things like 'no hands'.
I think it makes scene for demons to wear armor vs not. Tho i will admit not all demons would wear it or have means to wear it. But think about it and this goes for outsiders too. They fight wars tho for outsiders its with demons and devils. But for demons and devils they fight one another over control of the stupidest stuff. Yes getting your minions better weapons makes scene but so does give out armor to make them harder to kill. Now i do see that some places armor would work do to the climate. But given what you can make armor out of, just skin something that lives in that climate which is immune to the force that normally destroys armor. Sort of like a fire worm in a hot of fiery climate.
I think it makes scene for demons to wear armor vs not. Tho i will admit not all demons would wear it or have means to wear it. But think about it and this goes for outsiders too. They fight wars tho for outsiders its with demons and devils. But for demons and devils they fight one another over control of the stupidest stuff. Yes getting your minions better weapons makes scene but so does give out armor to make them harder to kill. Now i do see that some places armor would work do to the climate. But given what you can make armor out of, just skin something that lives in that climate which is immune to the force that normally destroys armor. Sort of like a fire worm in a hot of fiery climate.
Yeah, but then you have to also consider the real life problem of how much it costs to make armors, particularly for thousands of troops. There is a reason why some of the msot popular equipment combos for armies in history is just a shield made of wood and a spear- they are cheap to produce.
So when the demon doesn't actually care about its minions, then there is a lot of room for debate on whether it is worth equipping them. Heck, from the description of Abrikandilu (wrecker demons), there is even a noted preference for demons that can be a threat based only on their natural abilities without equipment. At least as cannon fodder. Obviously, you invest more in more powerful demons. But for the ones that you just brow beat en mass to attack? Who cares, you can always get more.
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succubi generally are oppose to hiding their voluptuous figures
Apparently they've never seen female armour.
succubi generally are oppose to hiding their voluptuous figuresApparently they've never seen female armour.
Depends, really. I've seen commentators cite pathfinder as a relatively good example with characters like Seelah.
Heck, one of the wrath of the righteous books (the midnight isles) even has a succubus in damn fine example of good female armor. Seriously- it isn't the kind of thing where you would have to worry about losing to rose bushes- it has proper coverage.
Admittedly, it is still something of a mix bag at times in this regard. But still, the fact that any are decent, even when it comes to traditionally "sigh" worthy categories like drow... At the very least, it doesn't appear to call but floss a type of heavy armor, as seen in some games.
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50 pound teleportation limit.
50 pound teleportation limit.
That...is a legitimate point.
If they are using any powerful 2 handed weapon (a lot are around 10 pounds), they could but heads against that limit fairly quickly. Especially when dealing with clothes, supplies, magical items, stolen babies (which might as supplies, in the 'food' and 'magical material' categories).
For light and medium armors, anything decent would take up half of their limit, and they literally could not carry anything else with most heavy armors.
So they might want to keep relatively light, since they need to be flexible depending on their goals. Hard to steal that big shiny "jar of unlimited magical power" if it puts you over your teleport weight limit.
So at the very least, you won't see demons with much more than light armor.
50 pound teleportation limit.That's brilliant. Simple yet devastating.
Lemeres, don't forget about size multipliers - those can add up really quickly as the demons get bigger and the weight limit stays the same.
I checked Demons Revisited, and not only is the aforementioned balor over their teleportation weight limit, so is the hezrou, the shadow demon (thanks to having an SLA that can't bring objects), the marilith, the vrolikai, the succubus (thanks to carrying 70 lbs. of gold) and the vrock.
Heck, the most popular armor for demons might end up being the armored coat can dump it as a move action (which still lets them teleport as a standard). And I would certainly not spend money enchanting armor that I may have to abandon at a moment's notice- much better to just have spares.
So yeah- except for that, I think you shouldn't have demons use armor unless they are cannon fodder you don't care about and can beat into doing suicide runs.
Frankly, if I could teleport, I would never willingly do anything that could remove that ability. Ignoring the idea that I am overconfident and believe no one could defeat me (pride is a common sin), there is the simple fact that teleporting seems very damn convenient (I mean... why walk to the grocery store when you can just freakin' teleport there?)
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50 pound teleportation limit.
Why do you think that succubi wear so little. It is in their breast interest.
~grins and runs from the mob~
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I would add a feat for outsiders that allowed them to "bond" an item to their "soul", thus granting it the same immunities and ignoring the teleport limit. So bonding a suit of full plate mail would work. BUT I would only go with one item or group of items (swords in a malirith's case) per feat.
One of the main villains that I made up was a succubus who was an assassin and a spy for her lord and master, a more powerful demon. She ALWAYS kept that limit in mind, since discretion is the better part of valor and she did not serve her master by being destroyed. If things got too bad, she would teleport away, leaving her charmed minions to fight and die.
Or you could make it to where they could make some type of leather armor made from their own skin, thus not being part of the 50 pound limit. ~shrugs~ Regeneration has its uses.
Overall- giving a class level and then throwing on proper armor is like...the very first and easiest change you can make to a monster in order to buff them up.
Until you get into the rule complexities of adjudicating things like whether they get their +1 ability score bonus for every four hit dice, class levels, or some combination thereof.
"Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor."
So, demons that are wearing armour in their statblock are proficient with armour. Otherwise they could spend a feat or get class levels.
Just wanted to add this for the sake of thoroughness: When the rule references the creature's stat block, it is referring to the base creature in the Bestiary.
A GM can't add full plate to a balor and say he's proficient just because "full plate" is now written on his stat block (well, I suppose he could, but that'd be cheating). The balor would need to take levels in a specific class or spend feats to gain the proficiency.
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Because sometimes the scales just don't work. Had Smaug worn armor, Bard's arrow wouldn't have been so helpful.
Actually, in the book Smaug WAS wearing armor, made out of diamonds no less. But one of the scales had come loose at a really bad spot, which Bilbo noticed and told the dwarves of. A nearby thrush heard it, and told Bard of it (Bard was of the original line of Dale, and thus able to understand the thrush).
50 pound teleportation limit.
The one time Folding Plate becomes a necessity.
It recently struck me that when using True Name it might make sense for some of the gifts given to the called outsider to be better equipment. A mithral chain shirt +2 and a mithral light shield +2 wouldn't have any ACP but could increase a creature's AC by +9.
increasing your defense when you can increase your destructive potential?
"It is stylish, looks cute, and I always wanted to be a pirate."
Or so she said I asked my favorite succubus about the light armor and rapier. I think she even dipped into swashbuckler.
The outsiders I'm looking at are Medium, and a typical outsider doesn't have much else to carry anyhow. I guess that a handy haversack could be a nice gift too though (for some reason I'm envisioning it as a big purse which contains all sorts of stuff)
Mithral also seems like it would be popular.