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I am trying to figure out of the Spell Sage Archetype from the Advanced Players Guide makes a Wizard a legal base class for Dragon Disciple.
I do not believe this archetype is banned. Further the class gets the ability (Once per day, a spell sage can spontaneously cast any spell on the bard, cleric, or druid spell list as if it were a wizard spell he knew and had prepared.)
The ability that is needed is this
(Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.)
Since the Core RAW defines spontaneous as
Core Book pg 206 (Most spellcasters prepare spells in advance—whether from a spellbook or through prayers—while some cast spells spontaneously without preparation.
This would qualify because it says spontaneously which is specifically described as without preparation.
What is everyone thought on this.
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It's unlikely.
"Once per day, a spell sage can spontaneously cast any spell on the bard, cleric, or druid spell list as if it were a wizard spell he knew and had prepared."
My rules interpretation could very well be wrong, but this line of text may prevent a Spell Sage from becoming a DD. The spell being cast through the Spell Study supernatural ability is still treated as prepared.
May I ask what you are hoping to gain from the DD levels as a spell sage? If there is a specific interaction you are after, there may be another way to achieve it that presents a lesser chance for table variation.
Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood
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No. The dragon disciple line means a sorcerer, bard, or now i guesse the arcanist.Don't forget Bloodragers.
I'm very happy with that ruling on Bloodragers....I never play only GM so I'll never get to make one but some day I might be a player again.
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It does say "spontaneously cast." I think you could make a case for it being legal, but I also think there's enough disagreement that you'd be better served looking for a different concept.
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That archetype is in the ACG not the APG, but I found it. :)
The ability also requires to give up prepared spell slots, so it falls into the other 'spontaneous caster' (cleric's cure or druid's summon natures ally). Also, since the ability never adds levels in spellcaster i think that part the DD will not apply.
To your last question, the answer is under the magic section of the CRB, sorcerers and bards "do not use spell books or prepare spells" its not specific to DD. Later classes (like summoner, arcanist, skald, etc.) follow these. If an oracle archetype allowed arcane, they might qualify.
I am curios of the intent behind the question and if we can acheive it in other ways. I love DD & even made a Pali into one (dipping sorcerer), so would like to hear the character concept. :)
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Keep in mind though, while it takes spontaneous spellcasting to qualify, the class will advance an arcane spellcasting class of your choice. So you could dip a level of bloodrager, sorcerer, bard, etc and take the rest of your levels, and your DD advancement, in wizard.
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The intent is to do Barb 3 Wizard 2 DD 4 and Qualify for eldritch Knight. My group uses PFS as a limit so I must be PFS qualify-able. I also didn't want to go further into DD because I would have to sacrifice more BAB. I dont want to use bloodrager because they don't get spells until 4th level and I would go Barb 1 Wiz 1 Barb 1 Wiz 1 Barb 1 DD1 and so on.
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That archetype is in the ACG not the APG, but I found it. :)
To your last question, the answer is under the magic section of the CRB, sorcerers and bards "do not use spell books or prepare spells" its not specific to DD. Later classes (like summoner, arcanist, skald, etc.) follow these. If an oracle archetype allowed arcane, they might qualify.
Yes I apologize the class is in the Advanced Class Guide.
For my question I was wondering how you got the answer that the Dragon Disciple line now means sorcerer, bard and archanist. This is not clarified in the Core Rule Book. (Unless there is some Errata that I am missing). It also states in the Core Rule Book that spontaneous caster means you don't have to prepare spells. With this in mind any class (not race) that casts spontaneous 1st level spells would qualify for the dragon disciple.
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In every archetype that makes a prepared caster into a spontaneous caster it actually says it does that, spell sage does not.
I don't know of any rule changes but the requirement mentioned nothing about needing to be a spontaneous spell caster only that in order to qualify the character needed to cast the spells unprepared/spontaneously which oddly enough the spell sage does.
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Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood
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The Eldritch Scion is the Magus archetype that allows magi to be spontaneous casters. Under the Spells section of the archetype it specifically says "He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time."
That by definition is spontaneous casting that would allow a Dragon Disciple prestige class.
Edit: Really there wouldn't be a wizard archetype that makes a wizard a spontaneous caster because that's a sorcerer
There is, however, a wildblooded bloodline that lets a sorcerer use Int instead of Cha for casting: Sage.
Not quite the same, but it's something.
-j
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Contributor
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There is, however, a wildblooded bloodline that lets a sorcerer use Int instead of Cha for casting: Sage.
Not quite the same, but it's something.
-j
You'd have some serious trouble becoming a dragon disciple that way, though. ^_^
No they cast 1 spell per day spontaneously not spells plural.
So if a Spell Sage picks up the Eldritch Heritage feat and grabs a Bonded Object, he'll be able to cast "spells plural" and become a spontaneous caster, right? ;-)
But all joking aside, Pathfinder would really benefit from an icon system by classes, features, traits, etc. There wouldn't be as much arguing if you could look at an archetype and see "Gains <spontaneous caster icon>, Loses <prepared caster icon>" and be able to compare it with the prestige class' "Requires <spontaneous caster icon>."
It would also help users be able to tell whether something was omitted intentionally. For example, Lava Gnomes get a bonus to the Oracle's Flame Mystery, but not the Volcano Mystery. It would be easier to tell intent if Lava Gnomes got a bonus to <fire type icon> and the Volcano Mystery had (or did not have) the <fire type icon> by it.
Meh. Just my thoughts.
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casting 1 spell per day as a special feature isn't the same as being a spontaneous caster.
There have been other debates on this in the past I will look for an official ruling when I get a chance. But my understanding of the semantics is being able to cast 1 spell a day of multiple spell types is being able to cast spells. For further debate 1 spell a day is two spells in two days.
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That archetype is in the ACG not the APG, but I found it. :)
To your last question, the answer is under the magic section of the CRB, sorcerers and bards "do not use spell books or prepare spells" its not specific to DD. Later classes (like summoner, arcanist, skald, etc.) follow these. If an oracle archetype allowed arcane, they might qualify.
Yes I apologize the class is in the Advanced Class Guide.
For my question I was wondering how you got the answer that the Dragon Disciple line now means sorcerer, bard and archanist. This is not clarified in the Core Rule Book. (Unless there is some Errata that I am missing). It also states in the Core Rule Book that spontaneous caster means you don't have to prepare spells. With this in mind any class (not race) that casts spontaneous 1st level spells would qualify for the dragon disciple.
Agreed, that line is not in the CRB (or any rules AFAIK). The person who said that line was summing the classes based on their class description '...without preparing...' I am not sure 'spontaneous caster' or 'prepared caster' are phrases even used in the CRB, though later books do.
A spontaneous caster is not the same as spontaneous casting.. Druids & clerics are prepared caster but they have spontaneous casting.
Spontaneous Casting: A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy..."
Another case for the thesaurus.
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The intent is to do Barb 3 Wizard 2 DD 4 and Qualify for eldritch Knight. My group uses PFS as a limit so I must be PFS qualify-able. I also didn't want to go further into DD because I would have to sacrifice more BAB. I dont want to use bloodrager because they don't get spells until 4th level and I would go Barb 1 Wiz 1 Barb 1 Wiz 1 Barb 1 DD1 and so on.
Eldritch Knight explains wizard. What is the hook for DD?
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Two items of interest. This FAQ answer may shed some light on the intent of Paizo big wigs.
The Spell Sage's Spell Study ability is Supernatural. So, would it count as casting in any form?
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Two items of interest. This FAQ answer may shed some light on the intent of Paizo big wigs.
The Spell Sage's Spell Study ability is Supernatural. So, would it count as casting in any form?
That is a great point I didn't catch that; so I guess my question now is can a ability that is classified as (su) be used as a casting requirement for a prestige class.
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That is a great point I didn't catch that; so I guess my question now is can a ability that is classified as (su) be used as a casting requirement for a prestige class.Two items of interest. This FAQ answer may shed some light on the intent of Paizo big wigs.
The Spell Sage's Spell Study ability is Supernatural. So, would it count as casting in any form?
Probably only if its a specific spell
No they cast 1 spell per day spontaneously not spells plural.
As I recall, there was a FAQ that established that the the use of the plural 'spells' was meant to include the case where you only had one spell. I can't seem to find it, though.
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No they cast 1 spell per day spontaneously not spells plural.As I recall, there was a FAQ that established that the the use of the plural 'spells' was meant to include the case where you only had one spell. I can't seem to find it, though.
I found it. It was a PDT post, but it never made it onto the FAQ page.
The design team does not consider a prerequisite or requirement of "ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells" to literally mean "ability to cast at least two or more 1st-level arcane spells."
Being able to cast one spell of that type and level meets the prerequisite or requirement (if the prerequisite or requirement was intended to mean "two or more," it would say that, or use language like "at least two").