RAW I think a Psychic can combine Phantom Limb with Contingency to immediately get a 24 hour head replacement if you're ever decapitated. Anyone disagree?
A monster in an adventure path (that is a major spoiler) used a limited wish to gain one use of protection from vorpal that regrew it's head as soon as it was removed.
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"This could be as simple as a missing finger or toe or as complex as one or more limbs or even a set of wings" suggests that wings is as complicated as it can get. Your head is more complicated than wings.
Even if it did immediately replace your head, being decapitated kills you so you would still be dead. Your corpse would have a contingent phantom head.
No, I would never allow this. Your head is by far the most complex part of your body, hands down without a question. It contains the entirety of 4 of your 5 senses, all information processing, all memories, all decision making, everything that makes you you.
Even if it could work (and I don't think it should), then you're already dead. Regeneration cannot bring a dead creature back to life.
I think it's clear that it works. It can replace multiple body parts, the complexity stuff covers the most complex thing they could imagine you casting it to replace. But they didn't think about the head because they don't account for niche things like contingency in regular spell descriptions.
The already dead argument holds no water. You're dead when you're decapitated because you have no head. This instantly gives you a head.
Finally, this is a one class, one time niche defense that foregoes a regular contingency and uses up a spell known that isn't otherwise very useful on a spontaneous caster. It's hardly OP.
Nope.
Limb:
noun
1. a part or member of an animal body distinct from the head and trunk, as a leg, arm, or wing:
the lower limbs; artificial limbs.
"Distinct from the head" seems pretty clear.
Which part of the PRD did you get that from?
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The rules do not exist in a vacuum. If there is not a definition in the rulebook, then we must default to the English definition. To do anything else would end in utter madness.
1. The "limb" distinction and limitation exists because there's a difference, without magic, between losing a limb and a head. But we have magic, so loss of a head need not necessarily be fatal. Limitations of our world and their consequence for the development of our language therefore tell us little about Pathfinder-verse.
2. The spell title is a convenient short hand. The actual spell text is what matters, and it says "This spell creates a semi-visible psychic manifestation that allows a creature to replace a missing body part or parts." If you lose an ear or eye or nose or tongue this should replace them. And, in very limited circumstances, a head. The examples are simply that, examples of commonly expected situations. They don't foreclose other options. "As complex as" is not the same as "no more complex than."
1) Does your head function differently in Pathfinder than it does in real life? There may be many huge differences in this world of magic, but basic anatomy is the same.
2) Than we simply disagree on the parsing of the English language, which means this conversation is over. I don't argue language parsing, take it up with your GM.
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Being decapitated still kills you, even if you instantly get a replacement head (and it's not at all clear from the cheetah flips you want the spell text to do that it actually can make a phantom head).
You are decapitated and die > contingency triggers > instantaneously casts phantom limb.
not
You are decapitated > contingency triggers > instantaneously casts phantom limb > you would die but don't.
Because die happens at the same time as decapitated.
+1 Charlie Bell
Even if it could replace your head (and I don't think it can), it just gives your corpse a head. Doesn't help in the slightest unless your plan was to have an open casket within 24 hours.
It contains the entirety of 4 of your 5 senses, all information processing, all memories, all decision making, everything that makes you you.
I agree with your reasoning, the PC is already dead, but this is a setting where souls demonstrably exist. We have no way of determining what the brain does (if anything) that the soul doesn't from an identity standpoint.
But yeah, no OP, you're dead.
Being decapitated still kills you, even if you instantly get a replacement head (and it's not at all clear from the cheetah flips you want the spell text to do that it actually can make a phantom head).
I disagree. The decapitated = death is a rules shorthand that exists because the possibility of instant head replacement didn't previously exist. A real decapitated head is still conscious for some fraction of time after decapitation until the blood loss hits.
This is an instant, psychic, necromantic effect. Of course it can pick up and sustain your consciousness where it left dropped off.
If you want there to be a rules change so that you can not die instantly upon decapitation, then you should take that over to the suggestions forums.
I think it's clear that it works. It can replace multiple body parts, the complexity stuff covers the most complex thing they could imagine you casting it to replace. But they didn't think about the head because they don't account for niche things like contingency in regular spell descriptions.
The already dead argument holds no water. You're dead when you're decapitated because you have no head. This instantly gives you a head.
Finally, this is a one class, one time niche defense that foregoes a regular contingency and uses up a spell known that isn't otherwise very useful on a spontaneous caster. It's hardly OP.
1-Vorpal effect occurs, rendering you dead per written rules
2-New head appears on dead corpse3-Dead corpse falls over, being dead
No, it doesn't work.
1. The "limb" distinction and limitation exists because there's a difference, without magic, between losing a limb and a head. But we have magic, so loss of a head need not necessarily be fatal. Limitations of our world and their consequence for the development of our language therefore tell us little about Pathfinder-verse.
2. The spell title is a convenient short hand. The actual spell text is what matters, and it says "This spell creates a semi-visible psychic manifestation that allows a creature to replace a missing body part or parts." If you lose an ear or eye or nose or tongue this should replace them. And, in very limited circumstances, a head. The examples are simply that, examples of commonly expected situations. They don't foreclose other options. "As complex as" is not the same as "no more complex than."
Yes you get a new body part, but contingency does not go off until the condition is in place. The condition is that your head is removed. As soon as your head is removed you are dead. So you are just putting a fake head on a dead body.
Order of operations:
1. You are decapitated(instantly die)
2. You now get a new head.
In real life you would actually still be alive for a short time after your head is removed. The game makes no such allowances. You are insta-dead.
This game is not a real life simulation. It is not even close. If you want to rule that people continue to live after certain things take place for a few more seconds or minutes that is fine as a GM, but if you are going by the rules then you need rule support, and the rules say you die upon being vorpaled. They don't say "You die if you don't grow a new head in 6 seconds/one round".
Ooooor... you could rule that the body DOES in fact survive because of this phantom head...
Of course, nothing in that power talks about duplicating memories or abilities, so you would have a perfectly functional, brand new, empty brain controlling the body.
:D
Unless you can find rules to support otherwise, of course.
It can replace multiple body parts, the complexity stuff covers the most complex thing they could imagine you casting it to replace.
Leaving aside the decapitated = instant death argument, I don't see where you are getting that this line of text describing what the spell does is just someone's imagination.
"This could be as simple as a missing finger or toe or as complex as one or more limbs or even a set of wings. "
If I say pick a number as small as one or as large as 10, and you pick 11 you are not falling within the bounds I have set. Fireball doesn't just imagine it normally does 1d6/level but you are free to decide that 3d6+10/level is appropriate for your character, it does what it says. Similarly, Phantom Limb can't do things more complex then multiple limbs or a set of wings. And it is hard to argue that heads are not more complex than those.
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Easy solution:
Be a Draconic sorceror.
Eventually get high Charisma and Form of Dragon.
Seduce a strapping young Hydra to be your mate.
Live out your years with hydra.
Eventually you will bear a son.
Magic jar your son.
You are now a hydra.
When you become decapitated, two more heads sprout up.
Profit.
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Why not just have your head regrow a new body? Multiple limbs should cover that, right? You would just happen to be naked after.
Easy solution:
Be a Draconic sorceror.
Eventually get high Charisma and Form of Dragon.
Seduce a strapping young Hydra to be your mate.
Live out your years with hydra.
Eventually you will bear a son.
Magic jar your son.
You are now a hydra.
When you become decapitated, two more heads sprout up.
Profit.
OMG this is pure gold, I love this.
Why not just have your head regrow a new body? Multiple limbs should cover that, right? You would just happen to be naked after.
Possibly. Questionable.
Still dead.
I think it's clear that it works. It can replace multiple body parts, the complexity stuff covers the most complex thing they could imagine you casting it to replace. But they didn't think about the head because they don't account for niche things like contingency in regular spell descriptions.
The already dead argument holds no water. You're dead when you're decapitated because you have no head. This instantly gives you a head.
Finally, this is a one class, one time niche defense that foregoes a regular contingency and uses up a spell known that isn't otherwise very useful on a spontaneous caster. It's hardly OP.
1-Vorpal effect occurs, rendering you dead per written rules
2-New head appears on dead corpse
3-Dead corpse falls over, being deadNo, it doesn't work.
For the sake of argument, what if the character had more than one head?
It is possible RAW (1 level synthesist dip), just not a common choice.
For the sake of argument, what if the character had more than one head?
It is possible RAW (1 level synthesist dip), just not a common choice.
Depends on the creature. When a creature has more than one head, it typically specifies what the effects are for losing a head (such as a hydra). But generally speaking, as long as you have one head intact than you should be fine.
There should be a magic headband of continued animation, that keeps your head alive after it is cloven from your shoulders. I imagine you would still be allowed to cast spells as long as they only had a verbal component and you could make perception checks, as long as you weren't face down in the dirt.
What about the Green Knight? He would live. So do Trolls.
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What if you add Breath of Life to the contingency?
/cevah
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There should be a magic headband of continued animation, that keeps your head alive after it is cloven from your shoulders. I imagine you would still be allowed to cast spells as long as they only had a verbal component and you could make perception checks, as long as you weren't face down in the dirt.
This would also need the effect of the head crowing spiderlegs from its severead neck, giving it a climb speed, and then running around on them. Having the head dangling upside down from them.
Throw in a free high-pitched scream Shatter-effect every 1d4 rounds. Just for the "Oh my God! What is that Thing!"-Effect.
RAW I think a Psychic can combine Phantom Limb with Contingency to immediately get a 24 hour head replacement if you're ever decapitated. Anyone disagree?
Heads are not limbs.
Limb
an arm or leg of a person or four-legged animal, or a bird's wing.
Drahliana Moonrunner is correct.
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What about the Green Knight? He would live. So do Trolls.
----
What if you add Breath of Life to the contingency?
/cevah
What about the Black Knight? After all, it's just a flesh wound.
RAW I think a Psychic can combine Phantom Limb with Contingency to immediately get a 24 hour head replacement if you're ever decapitated. Anyone disagree?Heads are not limbs.
Yeah, but that's just the title. The text references "missing body parts." It was all discussed above.
Yeah, but that's just the title. The text references "missing body parts." It was all discussed above.RAW I think a Psychic can combine Phantom Limb with Contingency to immediately get a 24 hour head replacement if you're ever decapitated. Anyone disagree?Heads are not limbs.
The spell explicitly states that if you do not need a limb or choose not to use it that way you get a choice from a list of what you can grow and head ain't on it.
If the target does not need a replacement limb (or chooses not to use the spell in this way), it can instead select one of the following options. In this case, the spell lasts only for 10 minutes per level.
Extra Arms: The target grows two phantom arms, granting it two extra natural claw attacks; the target cannot use the phantom arms for any other purpose.
Extra Legs: The target grows two phantom legs and strong hindquarters like those of a horse, granting it a +30-foot enhancement bonus to speed and a +4 bonus to its CMD against overrun and trip combat maneuvers.
Mermaid’s Tail: The target grows a phantom tail, granting it a swim speed of 60 feet.
Phantom Wings: The target grows phantom wings, granting it a fly speed of 60 feet (good maneuverability).
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There should be a magic headband of continued animation, that keeps your head alive after it is cloven from your shoulders. I imagine you would still be allowed to cast spells as long as they only had a verbal component and you could make perception checks, as long as you weren't face down in the dirt.This would also need the effect of the head crowing spiderlegs from its severead neck, giving it a climb speed, and then running around on them. Having the head dangling upside down from them.
Throw in a free high-pitched scream Shatter-effect every 1d4 rounds. Just for the "Oh my God! What is that Thing!"-Effect.
I like the way you think. And after the normal spell duration the head can explode into a swarm of spiders.
This should just be a cursed item that decapitates the wearer and causes all afore mentioned nastiness when its command word is spoken.
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RAW I think a Psychic can combine Phantom Limb with Contingency to immediately get a 24 hour head replacement if you're ever decapitated. Anyone disagree?
The head is not a limb. You can use it as one, but it isn't a limb.
I can certainly see using a different spell to regrow your head, but phantom limb doesn't apply to heads.
There should be a magic headband of continued animation, that keeps your head alive after it is cloven from your shoulders. I imagine you would still be allowed to cast spells as long as they only had a verbal component and you could make perception checks, as long as you weren't face down in the dirt.This would also need the effect of the head crowing spiderlegs from its severead neck, giving it a climb speed, and then running around on them. Having the head dangling upside down from them.
Throw in a free high-pitched scream Shatter-effect every 1d4 rounds. Just for the "Oh my God! What is that Thing!"-Effect.
*scribbles down notes for the next session*
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*scribbles down notes for the next session*There should be a magic headband of continued animation, that keeps your head alive after it is cloven from your shoulders. I imagine you would still be allowed to cast spells as long as they only had a verbal component and you could make perception checks, as long as you weren't face down in the dirt.This would also need the effect of the head crowing spiderlegs from its severead neck, giving it a climb speed, and then running around on them. Having the head dangling upside down from them.
Throw in a free high-pitched scream Shatter-effect every 1d4 rounds. Just for the "Oh my God! What is that Thing!"-Effect.
Or you could use the Head of Vecna.
/cevah
*scribbles down notes for the next session*There should be a magic headband of continued animation, that keeps your head alive after it is cloven from your shoulders. I imagine you would still be allowed to cast spells as long as they only had a verbal component and you could make perception checks, as long as you weren't face down in the dirt.This would also need the effect of the head crowing spiderlegs from its severead neck, giving it a climb speed, and then running around on them. Having the head dangling upside down from them.
Throw in a free high-pitched scream Shatter-effect every 1d4 rounds. Just for the "Oh my God! What is that Thing!"-Effect.
Or you could use the Head of Vecna.
/cevah
My guys are experienced enough to know about the Head of Vecna (and the Killer Gazebo, for what it's worth). This, though, is going to freak them the **** out.