| RaizielDragon |
Watched The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, and The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug this week, for the first time (BotFA is up today). Got inspired to make an Orc riding a Wolf/Worg/Dire-Wolf build.
Would like to avoid Cavalier if possible, as the flavor doesn't seem fitting. Would prefer a Barbarian if that is possible. Mounted Fury looks like my go to archetype, though I'm open to other suggestions.
Just looking for input/feedback on the idea and how to best make it a beast in combat.
EDIT: I'm starting to lean more towards just going the Nature Soul>Animal Ally>Boon Companion route.
| Derklord |
As 666bender said, you can actually ride a worg (which is D&D's version of the warg) with the Monstrous Mount feat.
The important difference is that (at least according to the book), wargs are intelligent - they aren't tamed by the orcs but rather form a sort of symbiotic relationship. They have a language (which Gandalf understands, by the way) and are driven by planning and not just instinct.
Note that in The Hobbit, orcs are called goblins: "Orc is not an english word (...) [it is] usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds). Orcis the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures" - which may be why the worgs speak goblin and are mediumsized, instead of orcish and large sized. Wargs are definitly larger than normal wolfes, though (they should be large).
| SheepishEidolon |
Depending on your GM, you might not need a feat at all. Find a wolf-like creature, make it obey (Intimidate, brute force or with the help of some nature worshipper) and do your skill checks to ride it and keep it bay. Wolf-riding orc NPCs are not necessarily cavaliers, druids etc., too.
That said, a few more mechanical options:
* Summoner level 1, add Mount evolution to your quadruped eidolon (which is flavored as wolf-like), take Undersized Mount feat, then continue as barbarian
* Summoner level 4, for the Ghost Wolf spell, then continue as barbarian; there is no explicit rule allowing the spell for Unchained summoners though
* Cavalier level 7, take Undersized Mount and Monstrous Companion (worg) feats, keep in mind cavaliers are not necessarily the typical shining knights
| RaizielDragon |
Yeah, I wasn't necessarily set on it being a Worg/Warg. I just initially listed them for completeness. As long as it's a wolfish mount, I'm happy. I'm aiming for a large mount so that I don't have to take Undersized Mount and because a large mount will be more dangerous in combat. Carrying capacity could become an issue as well, so large will help there too. My only incentive for staying with a medium mount would be in case of tight quarters, which will be somewhat campaign dependent. I likely wouldn't run this in the campaign I'm currently in (Council of Thieves) because it's a lot of indoors or in-city stuff so far.
So, assuming the campaign will involve fairly open terrain, a large mount seems to be the way to go. I'll look into Hunter, as I don't know much about them. Fighter would be an acceptable option as well, but I'm liking the idea of a Barbarian that gives their Rage bonuses to their mount as well, with Ferocious Mount.
| RaizielDragon |
I think I've got it narrowed down to two options now:
1) My main interest is still a Barbarian with the Nature Soul>Animal Ally>Boon Companion feats.
2) I would also consider a Ranger, but only with the Wild Hunter and Skirmisher archetypes. I'm not a fan of favored enemy or spellcasting, but I like the Animal Focus (especially Bear or Bull) from the Hunter (was considering Hunter until I saw the reduced BAB and HD) and I like the Hunter's Tricks (Aiding Attack, Bolster Companion, and Sic 'Em all seem good).
The upside I see to 2 is that it has a lot more feats (don't need to waste 3 to get my animal companion, and get extra combat style feats and Endurance for free, which can potentially lead into Flagellant, Diehard, etc), more skills, and just generally more outside of combat usefulness.
1 will more reliably have a Strength bonus (Rage vs Bull aspect) that is also higher, can get Str and Con bonus instead of choosing between the two (Hunter can have two, but Wild Hunter only gets one), more HP, and the Rage powers are pretty useful. Getting Pounce should combine with Ride-By-Attack to allow me to full attack while my mount still double moves, if I'm reading them correctly.
Also, I'd be interested in being somewhat flexible between ranged and melee. I know with a two-handed weapon, you mainly just need power attack, but that ranged combat can be pretty feat intensive, which makes me lean towards ranger.
Thoughts on 1 vs 2?
Fruian Thistlefoot
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I think I've got it narrowed down to two options now:
1) My main interest is still a Barbarian with the Nature Soul>Animal Ally>Boon Companion feats.
2) I would also consider a Ranger, but only with the Wild Hunter and Skirmisher archetypes. I'm not a fan of favored enemy or spellcasting, but I like the Animal Focus (especially Bear or Bull) from the Hunter (was considering Hunter until I saw the reduced BAB and HD) and I like the Hunter's Tricks (Aiding Attack, Bolster Companion, and Sic 'Em all seem good).
The upside I see to 2 is that it has a lot more feats (don't need to waste 3 to get my animal companion, and get extra combat style feats and Endurance for free, which can potentially lead into Flagellant, Diehard, etc), more skills, and just generally more outside of combat usefulness.
1 will more reliably have a Strength bonus (Rage vs Bull aspect) that is also higher, can get Str and Con bonus instead of choosing between the two (Hunter can have two, but Wild Hunter only gets one), more HP, and the Rage powers are pretty useful. Getting Pounce should combine with Ride-By-Attack to allow me to full attack while my mount still double moves, if I'm reading them correctly.
Also, I'd be interested in being somewhat flexible between ranged and melee. I know with a two-handed weapon, you mainly just need power attack, but that ranged combat can be pretty feat intensive, which makes me lean towards ranger.
Thoughts on 1 vs 2?
Somehow I think your wanting too much in 1 build.
Pounce comes online late...and grants you 3 attacks at level 11 if not hasted. A single Lance attack does x3 damage based off the highest attack bonus. Basically once you get to level 10+ your now breaking even with the lancer. Not till your hasted or reach level 16 do you start to pull ahead. IF you can land every attack...good luck on that one.
The other problem Pounce Verses Lance brings is DR being applied to each attack. Since a Lancer is blasting for mega damage in 1 hit the DR is applied once making very little difference. When you swing 3 times on a DR/5 enemy they basically shave off 15 damage from your flurry of attacks verse only taking 5 points from the mega hit.
Pounce is an amazing ability. I will not down play it anymore...but if your looking to be on the back of a mount...it is not as good as the other option IMHO. At least not till your Levels 15+.
| Saldiven |
mounted combat and indomitable mount are what is keeping your mount, at level 1-20 alive...
Seriously. The mount is usually the easier to kill target between the mount and the rider. Having the ability to negate a successful attack at the mount each round is solid; your Ride skill should be comparable or better than most creatures' attack bonuses for level appropriate enemies.
Fruian Thistlefoot
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But since Pounce is on a Charge, and you get 3x damage on a Lance on a Charge, wouldn't I get 3x damage on all my attacks when I Pounce?
Yes when you have enough feats, rage powers to accomplish all the pre-reqs. And you can't even gain pounce till Level 10.
But currently your looking at:
Feats:
Nature Soul>Animal Ally>Boon Companion feats.
Power attack
Mounted Combat, Ride by attack, and Spirited Charge
(Archery feats to cover range beyond charging)
There is 7+ Feats. Requires at least Level 11+ to be up and running like your imagining.
Rage Powers:
Lesser Beast totem, Beast Totem, Greater Beast totem
I'm sure your looking at more.
You mentioned Invulnerable rager...It typically is a great archetype but if your Ride-by-attacking you are hardly catching full attacks that your d12 HD can not eat. A lancer type does not get hit as much for 2 reasons: 1. they are not standing there to be hit back. 2. They usually kill the target or hurt it so bad it has to do something drastic to live.
It is hard as a player to try and support such a late game melee build. I try to accomplish my builds in 5-7 Level intervals. By level 5-7 my builds can stand up to the challenges that the game assumes you are ready for. 7+ is building to my level 13-15 soft capstone ability. Quicken spell+ Spell perfection on casters, Come and Get me + Pounce on Barbarians.
The current Direction your going is meshing pinnacles of multiple fighting styles. Some of which are very feat intensive. My Honest advice is whittling down the character Idea and shave off the less necessary feats and abilities.
Deighton Thrane
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But since Pounce is on a Charge, and you get 3x damage on a Lance on a Charge, wouldn't I get 3x damage on all my attacks when I Pounce?
You gain 3x damage on the first attack, the rest are at normal damage. There is an FAQ about this here.