PFS Unchained Monk - Seeking Advice


Advice

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Unchained Monk, trying to build one and have no real idea what I'm doing, except from what I've read on the forums. Here's what I have so far -

Race: Human (dual talent, two +2 stat bumps from the ARG)

STR 16+2 (18), DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 14+2 (16), CHA 8
Stat bumps at 4th & 8th go into strength.

Traits: Honored Fist of the Society (+1 ki point, combat), Mizu Ki Hikari Rebel (+1 trait bonus to damage rolls made with unarmed attacks, regional)

Skills: Acrobatics, Perception, Sense Motive, undecided on the last skill rank.

1) Feat: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Stike, Bonus Feat: Dodge, Stunning Fist (DC13), Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike.

2) Bonus Feat: Combat Reflexes

3) Feat: Dragon Style

4) Ki Power: Bark Skin

5) Feat: Dragon Ferocity, Style Strike: Flying Kick (I'm assuming I can only move my movement bonus of 10', 20' at level 6, when used with Flurry of Blows)

6) Ki Power: Elemental Fury (Acid), Bonus Feat: Mobility

7) Feat: Power Attack

8) Ki Power: Abundant Step

9) Feat: Extra Ki. (Thought about taking Feat: Dragon Roar. At moment I'm leaning not to as the damage isn't that great, it's save is vs Fort, and costs 2 uses of Stunning fist.) Style Strike: Spin Kick

10) Bonus Feat: Improved Critical, Ki Power: Ki Leech

At moment, character has just made 2nd and really need to do some planning ahead.

Suggestions for proving this build and gear purchases (under 16000 gold).

Scarab Sages

I would change your style strike order. At 5th I love leg sweep. A free action improved trip at your full unarmed BAB. Combine it with Vicious Stomp for an extra attack. Then pick up Flying Kick at 9th. You don't have enough bonus speed to make full use of Flying Kick at low level, and leg sweep is useful for every fight that isn't against flyers.

I'd also drop Elemental Flurry. It's replicated by Deliquescent Gloves,
and a more defensife/utility option like gaseous form work better. At 8th level, Abundant step is a trap You don't have the ki for it. Get restoration. Trust me.

Gear options are an Amulet of Mighty Fists, A Circlet of Wisdom, a Belt of Str, Deliquescent Gloves, a Wand of Mage Armor, and a Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents (some things aren't safe to punch, and it also gives you a long range Magic Missile attack).


I'd avoid Power Attack. It doesn't relevantly affect your output.

Let's say that at level 10, you have 10 BAB, 20 STR, and a +2 amulet of mighty fists. That's +17 to hit for 1d10+10 (and 1d10+13 once per round), or with Power Attack, +14 for 1d10+16 (and 1d10+19 once per round). A CR 10 enemy has 24 AC.

You have +10/+10/+5 attacks, sometimes an extra +10 for ki attacks.

Power Attack ends up adding +1.2 damage attack, so spending a feat on Power Attack grants you something like +3.5 damage per round. Not very exciting. I'd personally rather use the feat for something more exciting.

Also, get Imp. Critical at 9 and use your 10th bonus for Medusa's Strike. It's too fun.

I also prefer to take CHA to 7 and WIS to 15.

Scarab Sages

I'd suggest Shattering Punch instead of Leg Sweep. DR/adamantine, DR/-, and hardness are all fairly common in PFS at higher levels, and deadly at lower levels. Especially in season 6 scenarios. Being able to get 1 attack a round through DR is probably worth more in the long run than the trip attack, even if it doesn't factor into every fight.

I'd suggest Furious Defense instead of Elemental Fury/Gaseous Form. Losing the +4AC option as a default Ki power was, to me, worse than losing the good Will save. Fortunately, you can get it back, and it now works as an immediate action. So when the big bad decides to full attack you, you can pump your AC on the fly.

For equipment, I'd also aim for a Ring of Ki Mastery at higher levels. It brings Abundant Step down to 1 Ki and is an emergency Ki battery if combats get drawn out. I'd also add Monk's Robes. Imbicatus' list is good.

Imbicatus - I never even thought about the Quarterstaff of the Entwined Serpents for my Monk. Not only is it a useful backup and ranged weapon, but it's completely thematically appropriate for my Nagaji UMonk who already wears a Snakeskin Tunic.

Which reminds me, a Snakeskin Tunic gives. +2 Dex, +2 Resistence bonus against poisons, and +1 armor bonus to AC, which is useful when you don't have Mage Armor up. It costs the same as an ioun stone for Dex, and it uses a slot (chest) that is usually empty.

With only a 12 Con, you'll eventually want either an ioun stone for Con or to turn the belt into +2 STR/+2 CON.

Edit: One more note on legsweep at 5th... Tier 5-6 just happens to be when you start seeing more flying opponents in PFS, because 5th level happens to be when Wizards can start casting fly. So you'd be taking the free trip attack just as its starting to become less useful. Things also start to get larger and have more legs, making them harder to trip. It is true that you'll likely be able to use it more than Shattering Punch, but especially if you don't take Power Attack as Secret Wizard recommended, being able to ignore DR once per round will be a lifesaver.


Thanks for the replies. Going end up doing some tweaking with the build and list some purchases but that probably won't go up till late tomorrow.

Liberty's Edge

Playing an unchained monk, I echo the suggestion to take Shattering Punch. While you may not use it all the time, being able to use it against those foes with DR that you otherwise could not hurt has been invaluable.

I didn't go the Str route. I went Dex instead and picked up weapon finesse. Recently I was able to afford Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes and put agile on it so I could use my Dex instead of Str for additional damage on my unarmed strikes. And the higher dex helps with reflex and AC.

Liberty's Edge

As for gear, I also recently purchased Feather Step Slippers. Very cheap and allows you to ignore difficult terrain. Being able to move freely is important for a monk I have found.

Grand Lodge

Could not a Majority of the Construct Problems be handled with A Golem's Bane amulet or a Fire Forge amulet? I personally would rather Go the route of using Items to overcome Constructs and grab the Leg Sweep over Shattering Punch. But it is really up to the OP which way he wants to swing his fists.


What do you combat reflexes for? Maybe i´m overseeing something, but i don´t see you getting much out there.

I would recommend a cold iron monk weapon and others you can flurry with, just in case.

Scarab Sages

I handle hardness by being a dwarf and using the FCB. That doesn't help the OP though.

Scarab Sages

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Could not a Majority of the Construct Problems be handled with A Golem's Bane amulet or a Fire Forge amulet? I personally would rather Go the route of using Items to overcome Constructs and grab the Leg Sweep over Shattering Punch. But it is really up to the OP which way he wants to swing his fists.

On a class that relies so much on an Amulet of Mighty Fists, not so much. Taking a full round (at least) to swap them out, and losing whatever Mighty Fists is giving you isn't worth it most of the time.

A Golembane Scarab doesn't work against other constructs. Just golems, which even in scenarios that hint at their presence, don't show up that often or even at all.

A Forge Fist Amulet costs 13,000 gold, so in PFS it's not a practical purchase until near the end of a normal career, or at least the later third.

There are DR/- creatures in tier 3-4 scenarios (elementals).

There's hardness starting at tier 1-2 in PFS (robots and animated objects). It takes until 16th level for a monk to be able to overcome hardness or DR/adamantine unless they wield an adamantine weapon or use Shattering Punch.

DR/Good starts showing up as early as tier 1-2 as well, and the Monk never gets a way to overcome that, short of taking a roundto apply an oil of bless weapon or something similar.

On a trip build, working toward Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, Leg Sweep is fantastic. As a situational ability on a build that doesn't focus on continuing to be able to trip things at higher levels, it's still decent, but much less attractive.


WTB Martial Artist Unchained Monk

Scarab Sages

Honestly, there are a lot of good Style Strikes, but I would still likely stick with Flying Kick at 5th level. Being able to pounce from 10 feet is better than not being able to pounce at all, and at 6th level your fast move goes up to 20 feet (EDIT: And you get an iterative). You'd have to wait until 9th level if you don't take it at 5th, and 4 levels with pounce from any distance is better than either Shattering Punch or Leg Sweep. At 9th, I think Shattering Punch is a clearer choice over Leg Sweep.

Hammerblow could also be nice at 9th as basically a free vital strike on your first attack during a flurry. At that level it's at least an extra 1d10 (2d6 if you've managed Monk's Robes or another way to boost base unarmed damage by then) every round you can full attack (without having to flying kick). Not quite as good as Manyshot, but an extra 5.5 average damage/round isn't bad.


Elbow Smash is honestly the best for damage, particularly if you go with Jabbing Style.


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Just to mention, going for a weapon-using Unchained Monk is a great option, though I know people often don't like it conceptually if they've decided to go Monk. Flurry with a two-handed weapon has a lot of advantages, like always getting 1.5xSTR and two-handed Power Attack; you still have to make occasional attacks with an unarmed strike (unless you use Ascetic Style), but the majority of attacks will come out very well. Enhancing both a weapon and unarmed strikes is actually quite affordable, since the weapon (which you would focus your resources on) is much cheaper than an Amulet of Mighty Fists, and you can enhance your occasional unarmed strikes with a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes - which is also cheaper than an Amulet of Mighty Fists. It also leaves style open, though you can still go Dragon Style for the occasional unarmed attacks, for the mobility, and for working Dragon Ferocity's Shaken condition with a much better chance of critical hits.

I'm not saying you should go this route, just that it's very effective. Personally, my iconic concept of a Shaolin Warrior-Monk is a guy wielding a kung-fu broadsword, but others would strongly disagree.


My personal favorite for 2H + unarmed kicks is going Mantis Style, since damage is mostly covered already for and you can have more accurate unarmed Stunning Fists with Mantis Wisdom.

Grand Lodge

BadBird wrote:
I'm not saying you should go this route, just that it's very effective. Personally, my iconic concept of a Shaolin Warrior-Monk is a guy wielding a kung-fu broadsword, but others would strongly disagree.

I envision the Shaolin Monk. But I imagine the Idea of Iron Palm and Iron Body training. I imagine them using all sorts of weapons. Staff, Spear, Ox-tail or 9-ring Broadswords, Jin (straight sword), Chain whip, Rope Darts, Hook Swords, Kwan Daos. Shaolin Monks learned lots of weapons. Many specialized in a certain weapon that really clicks with them but they still practiced the main 4 of Staff, spear, Dao, and Jin.

Scarab Sages

Secret Wizard wrote:
Elbow Smash is honestly the best for damage, particularly if you go with Jabbing Style.

I like that one, too. It's probably a toss up between that and Hammerblow to me. Hammerblow does less damage, but it doesn't require a second attack roll, and the extra damage isn't non-lethal. It's the non-lethal part that knocks Elbow Smash down a peg, since it won't work on a lot of creatures.

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that we are talking about the Monk (non-Archetype) and there are too many good options to take them all. To me, that's a huge step up from the past and worth mentioning. Flying Kick may be my far and away favorite, but any of the ones mentioned are also good. Really, all of the Style Strikes have their positive points.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
BadBird wrote:
I'm not saying you should go this route, just that it's very effective. Personally, my iconic concept of a Shaolin Warrior-Monk is a guy wielding a kung-fu broadsword, but others would strongly disagree.
I envision the Shaolin Monk. But I imagine the Idea of Iron Palm and Iron Body training. I imagine them using all sorts of weapons. Staff, Spear, Ox-tail or 9-ring Broadswords, Jin (straight sword), Chain whip, Rope Darts, Hook Swords, Kwan Daos. Shaolin Monks learned lots of weapons. Many specialized in a certain weapon that really clicks with them but they still practiced the main 4 of Staff, spear, Dao, and Jin.

Indeed; I mean with reference to an iconic image, rather than whole concept.

Western warrior-monks (like Templar) aren't well represented by the class, but again my iconic image is a guy with a sword in two hands and a forearm-shield. You can actually do a pretty great sword-flurrying Templar Knight with a Sohei multiclass wearing medium armor and using a quickdraw light shield.


Templars are Cavaliers.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Templars are Cavaliers.

Templars and members of other martial holy orders were actually very literally christian monks. Which is what I meant by saying that western warrior-monks aren't well represented by the class. Some kind of tricky multiclass Sohei/Cleric/Martial flurrying a longsword or bastard sword is probably the closest representation of the classic Crusader orders you could do in pathfinder, since we're dealing with chainmail/breastplates, religiously dedicated military training, and supposedly hints of divine empowerment.


Updated with some tweaks and have a few questions.

Race: Human (dual talent, two +2 stat bumps from the ARG)

STR 16+2 (18), DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 14+2 (16), CHA 8
Stat bumps at 4th & 8th go into strength.

Traits: Honored Fist of the Society (+1 ki point, combat), Mizu Ki Hikari Rebel (+1 trait bonus to damage rolls made with unarmed attacks, regional)

Skills: Acrobatics, Perception, Sense Motive, undecided on the last skill rank.

1) Feat: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Stike, Bonus Feat: Dodge, Stunning Fist (DC13), Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike.

2) Bonus Feat: Combat Reflexes

3) Feat: Dragon Style

4) Ki Power: Bark Skin

5) Feat: Dragon Ferocity, Style Strike: Flying Kick

6) Ki Power: Scorching Ray (To help for my range combat ability. Would a Rod of Elemental Spell work with Scorching Ray since it is now a Ki Power and not a Spell?), Bonus Feat: Mobility

7) Feat: Extra Ki

8) Ki Power: Furious Defense

9) Feat: Extra Ki. Style Strike: Spin Kick

10) Bonus Feat: Improved Critical, Ki Power: Ki Leech

Comments -
While I really want to go with the Shattering Punch Style, I just feel I can get more use out of Flying Kick at 5th level and by the 9th level I should be able to get the gear to bypass most DR....but, have not made up my mind on this. I know which ever way I go I'll end up cursing myself some time in the future for not going the other way.

Have dropped the Feat: Power Attack and picked up another Feat: Extra Ki. Figure I can burn through Ki with no problem at all.
Have thought about instead getting the Extra Trait Feat or Skill Focus for helping out with UMD. Probably will not go this route as most tables will be playing with someone able to actually use my Wand of Mage Armor.)

Question: Do I have to wait till 3rd level to use the human alternative racial advancement of adding 1/4 Ki point every time I level?

Gear -
Headband: Headband of Inspired Wisdom - 4,000 gold (upgrade 16,000)
Neck: Amulet of Mighty Fist (Holy on first) - 16,000 gold
Body: Robe, Monk's - 13,000 gold
Chest: Tunic, Snakeskin - 8,000 gold
Hands: Deliquescent - 8,000 gold
Ring: Ring of Ki Mastery - 10,000 gold
Waist: Belt of Giant Strength - 4,000 gold (upgrade 16,000)
Feet: Slippers, Feather Step - 2,000 gold

Wand of Mage Armor - 750 gold
Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents - 5,050 gold (to use the magic missile ability, do I have to UMD this? If so, will replace it with something else - maybe.)
Ioun Stone, Pink Rhomboid (+2 Con) - 8,000 gold


BadBird wrote:
Indeed; I mean with reference to an iconic image, rather than whole concept.

Why I love the Sansetsukon

Grand Lodge

36 Chambers was a good kung fu movie. Tho I dislike the 3 sectional staff in actual practice. It has its advantages...but a lot of disadvantages with it too. The Disadvantages outweighs the advantages for me as a kung fu practitioner for it to be a main weapon choice or a Chosen weapon.

Scarab Sages

A few quick answers, but I may write more later.

Scorching Ray is a Spell-like ability as a ki power. Rods don't work with Spell-like abilities. I'm on my phone, or I'd link to the FAQ. I know it's useful to have a good ranged attack, but to me keeping a potion of Fly handy is more useful for a Monk. Scorching Ray will burn through Ki fast. Especially if you're going to buy the staff for magic missile, I don't think you need this.

At level 2, I think Dodge will be a more useful bonus feat for you than Combat Reflexes. It doesn't look like you're using Combat Reflexes as a prerequisite for anything, and without reach or a style based around generating attacks of opportunity, you're unlikely to often need more than 1 a round. High AC is one of the benefits of a Monk, and even a little boost makes it that much better. So a feat that applies all the time like Dodge is preferable to me to one that is highly situational (for this build) like Combat Reflexes. I've got both on my Monk, but he's a Snake Fang build and uses attacks of opportunity almost every round.

I think Flying Kick is the best choice for 5th. I think Spin Kick is fine at 9th.

Potions of Mage Armor are cheap. Keep a few of those around in addition to the wand for the rare situation no one can use the wand. I'm at 11th level with my PFS Monk, and I don't have any ranks in UMD. It's never been a problem.

I'm not sure on the Favored Class Bonus question. You might be right. You could always retrain them once you get a Ki pool. I don't know what that would cost in prestige.

You don't need UMD for the quaterstaff of entwined serpents. It's not a spell-trigger item. It's a wondrous item that grants magic missile as a spell-like ability. That does mean it provokes like a spell.

If you're going to wait until you can buy a Holy Amulet of Mighty Fists, then maybe pick up something cheap for that slot until you have the fame and gold to buy it.

I'm assuming you'll also be looking at a Ring of Protection, Cloak of Resistance, Handy Haversack and other typical items.


for the FCB according to the most recent ruling, you can't add to something you don't have, even if you wouldn't see the benefit until after you have it. So to add points to your ki pool you must first have a ki pool.

I feel that this rule is thought of when they make FCB, look at halflings and the kineticist, no racial FCB until lv6, and no benefit until lv11.

Grand Lodge

I dislike the scorching ray option also. Ki Arrow is much cheaper and it is common treasure for Enchanted Arrows to drop or be bought. 100ft is nice. This might also help you to not need to take so much Extra Ki feats.

Quote:
You don't need UMD for the quaterstaff of entwined serpents. It's not a spell-trigger item. It's a wondrous item that grants magic missile as a spell-like ability. That does mean it provokes like a spell.

Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents Very good ability consider it is a 100% hit rate for 2 bolts and Eschew Materials feat. Spellcasters get more out of the Quaterstaff but a monk can still use it to good success. It sure does beat a sling's damage. And will work as your first weapon until you can afford a good Amulet of Mighty fists.

It is a good item to save you a KI Power for something more useful. The best 6th level Qinggong ability would probably be Gaseous Form. Its good for Scouting/Infiltration for sure. You could probably Take a different power all together but that is up to you. Scorching Ray should go tho. Since your taking Flying Kick at 5 instead of 9 you could take Sudden Speed and increase your bonus Movement.

Not sure Improved critical is worth more than Medusa's Wrath. You can always stun a target and then proc the extra attack. But that is completely up to you. I like the extra attack over a 19-20/x2 critical.

That is about all I can think of at the moment.

Sovereign Court

If you're going unarmed you may consider the Allying cestus trick, especially if you want special things such as Holy on your AoMF. Depending upon your GM, you may have to burn an iterative on it so that you count as the 'wielder', but still worth it at higher levels.

Sovereign Court

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
I dislike the scorching ray option also. Ki Arrow is much cheaper and it is common treasure for Enchanted Arrows to drop or be bought. 100ft is nice.

Except it's not a touch attack.

Grand Lodge

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
I dislike the scorching ray option also. Ki Arrow is much cheaper and it is common treasure for Enchanted Arrows to drop or be bought. 100ft is nice.
Except it's not a touch attack.

So? its still is not a close range spell and Your Full BaB, +2 dex mod and other buffs/Misc Modifiers should be enough to hit the rare occasions you use this ability...and you should be moving towards the target so it should not happen often.

Also I am just saying I like Ki Arrow more than scorching ray both abilities are actually pretty s$~&ty.


For my Monks Bonus Feats -
I already took Dodge at 1st level. That leaves me to decide what to pick at 2nd. I keep changing my mind between Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes. At moment, I'm for Combat Reflexes and if I want to Grapple, I'll take the AoO for my Grapple check.
I have seen how powerful Grapple can be, I just don't want to go that route for a couple of reasons. The main reason is because it can be a pain to figure out and run all the options you have with grapple. ie, it gives me a headache.

Convinced me to drop Scorching Ray. With the Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents and potions of Fly, that should help vs flying targets.
6th level will take - Ki Power: Furious Defense
8th level - Ki Power: Insightful Wisdom (with the Ring of Ki Mastery this will only cost me 1 Ki Point.)

Is Medusa's Wrath that good?
I didn't think it was since to set it up, you need your target to fail a Fort Save. I hate targeting the Fort Save. :)


BadBird wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Templars are Cavaliers.
Templars and members of other martial holy orders were actually very literally christian monks. Which is what I meant by saying that western warrior-monks aren't well represented by the class. Some kind of tricky multiclass Sohei/Cleric/Martial flurrying a longsword or bastard sword is probably the closest representation of the classic Crusader orders you could do in pathfinder, since we're dealing with chainmail/breastplates, religiously dedicated military training, and supposedly hints of divine empowerment.

That doesn't represent a Templar at all. They aren't well known in fantasy for slashing faster than meets the eye, or wearing light armor, or used mystical powers gained through isolation.

You are looking at Cavaliers or Paladins if you want to get mystical - armored warriors that follow a strict order code.

Grand Lodge

Matt2VK wrote:

For my Monks Bonus Feats -

I already took Dodge at 1st level. That leaves me to decide what to pick at 2nd. I keep changing my mind between Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes. At moment, I'm for Combat Reflexes and if I want to Grapple, I'll take the AoO for my Grapple check.
I have seen how powerful Grapple can be, I just don't want to go that route for a couple of reasons. The main reason is because it can be a pain to figure out and run all the options you have with grapple. ie, it gives me a headache.

Convinced me to drop Scorching Ray. With the Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents and potions of Fly, that should help vs flying targets.
6th level will take - Ki Power: Furious Defense
8th level - Ki Power: Insightful Wisdom (with the Ring of Ki Mastery this will only cost me 1 Ki Point.)

Is Medusa's Wrath that good?
I didn't think it was since to set it up, you need your target to fail a Fort Save. I hate targeting the Fort Save. :)

I hate the Fort save too but Casters (whom you want stunned) typically have bad Fort Saves...the Idea is slaughtering a Caster before he can harm your group. Another reason I mentioned Burst of Speed you could More Effectively come flying into a caster's face and ending him before he can cause more harm to the entire group. With time you do get some bonus movement so it is not a necessary thing at all just a luxury...it is just not many of the good powers come online till 8 so I was filling a gap especially since your not taking abundant step.

Quote:
Furious Defense (Ex): By spending 1 point from his ki pool as an immediate action, a monk with this ki power can grant himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC until the end of his next turn. The monk can activate this ability and the formless mastery ki power with the same immediate action for a total cost of 3 ki points. A monk must be at least 7th level before selecting this ki power.

Wish you could take this at 6th level.

Silver Crusade

Gary Bush wrote:
I didn't go the Str route. I went Dex instead and picked up weapon finesse. Recently I was able to afford Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes and put agile on it so I could use my Dex instead of Str for additional damage on my unarmed strikes. And the higher dex helps with reflex and AC.

What level were you before you could afford the agile property to add dex to damage? It seems like your damage output would be much lower without a strength bonus for more than half of a PFS career.


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plus with bodywraps it only works on a portion of the attacks a Monk make.


I really thought about the Extra Movement but since this is for PFS, very rarely do you have space on the maps (encounters) that you need the extra movement for. Usually the problem is there just isn't enough space and you have your fellow party members getting in the way.

Over half the fights seem to be in buildings or some type of dungeon crawl.

Thinking about this now, might drop a Extra Ki feat for Feat: Skill Focus Acrobatics.

Scarab Sages

Ah, sorry, I missed Dodge at level 1. My bad. It's probably a toss up for me between Deflect Arrows, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Grapple. All three are situational for this build.

I also missed that they moved Furious Defense to be a level 7 ability. Wow! That's pretty harsh for something that used to be baked into the Ki Pool. They also didn't learn their lesson from Qinggong Monk. It's confusing to me why they still give you access to a new ability a level before you could ever actually take it. (There's no Extra Ki Power Feat, right?). Monk's should gain potential access to new Ki Powers at even levels, since they gain a new Ki Power at even levels. Anyway, that's a derail.

Looking more closely at the Ki Powers, for Level 6, I'd probably recommend either Gaseous Form, Feather Step (superior option to Light Steps, as it's 10 mins/level and you can cast it before entering a lot of PFS dungeons at the same time you cast Barkskin), or Sudden Speed. Though, I'm unclear on if Sudden Speed actually counts as an increase to your Monk's Bonus Movement. I'd expect table variation on whether or not you can combine Sudden Speed with Flying Kick, unless someone has a more definitive link.

One last item suggestion... a way to cast Shield when you need that extra AC boost is helpful. For my Monk, I bought a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (Abjuration), which gives me Shield 1/day, Endure Elements 1/day (essentially constant, since it's a 24 hour duration EDIT: Moved parenthetical to appropriate place), and Resistance and Prestidigitation at will for 2,500 gold. I have a lot of items in non-standard slots*, though, so I had to forgo a Cloak of Resistance to do this, and I'm using Ioun Stones for the resistance bonus, and would try to pre-cast Resistance if I suspected trouble was coming.

* What I mean by that is not that I have custom items in PFS, but that I'm using non-standard items. I have an item similar to a Monk's Robe from a chronicle sheet that's in the neck slot. That means I'm using a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes in the body slot. And I've got the Cloak of the Hedge Wizard, so I can't use a Cloak of Resistance. That kind of thing. Suboptimal, but I built the character around that chronicle item, so that's how it worked out.

Another way to get access to Shield, though, is through a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun Stone. It's a Spell Storing Ioun Stone that will store 1 spell level for 2,000 gold. I use this on my Ninja. There's debate about whether or not you can use a Wand to place a spell into the stone. I started assuming no. But, if you invest in a level 1 Pearl of Power, usually a Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist, or Magus will have Shield anyway, and you can get them to cast it into the stone at the start of the scenario. Alternatively, you could pay for spell casting services before each scenario to charge it. That would give you a one minute per scenario +4AC boost when you really need it. I tend to save mine for the BBEG fight, especially if I know when it's coming. It helps boost excellent Monk AC into ridculous territory.

Scarab Sages

Chess Pwn wrote:
plus with bodywraps it only works on a portion of the attacks a Monk make.

This is a major negative to the item. Especially if you're relying on it for something like Agile.

If you're going Dex build, an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists is the way to go, because Dex to Damage on all your attacks will be so important. It's only 4,000 gold, so both Fame and available gold will let you buy it around 4th level, which is in the same general range as when an Unchained Rogue or a Gunslinger would start getting Dex to Damage.

Compare that to the Bodywrap, which would require at least a 12,000 gold investment, and the Amulet is very preferable. Remember, the Amulet doesn't need a +1 enhancement bonus in addition to Agile, but the Bodywrap does. So the Bodywrap is both more expensive, and it doesn't apply to all of your many Flurry attacks.


Secret Wizard wrote:
BadBird wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Templars are Cavaliers.
Templars and members of other martial holy orders were actually very literally christian monks. Which is what I meant by saying that western warrior-monks aren't well represented by the class. Some kind of tricky multiclass Sohei/Cleric/Martial flurrying a longsword or bastard sword is probably the closest representation of the classic Crusader orders you could do in pathfinder, since we're dealing with chainmail/breastplates, religiously dedicated military training, and supposedly hints of divine empowerment.

That doesn't represent a Templar at all. They aren't well known in fantasy for slashing faster than meets the eye, or wearing light armor, or used mystical powers gained through isolation.

You are looking at Cavaliers or Paladins if you want to get mystical - armored warriors that follow a strict order code.

I'm sure there are a lot of types of 'Templar Fantasy' out there, but actual Templars were members of monastic christian orders who had vows of poverty and chastity, typically lived in enclosed monastery/church/fortress communities, and were noted for the kind of skill and 'zeal' that comes from martial training as a religious way of life. So a character wearing mithral chainmail (the crusade era was generally pre-plate) that makes an extra sword attack per round is actually a pretty good starting point, since what set Templars/Hospitallers/etc. apart from all the typical knightly orders was that they were actually knight-monks.

Liberty's Edge

Fromper wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
I didn't go the Str route. I went Dex instead and picked up weapon finesse. Recently I was able to afford Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes and put agile on it so I could use my Dex instead of Str for additional damage on my unarmed strikes. And the higher dex helps with reflex and AC.
What level were you before you could afford the agile property to add dex to damage? It seems like your damage output would be much lower without a strength bonus for more than half of a PFS career.

The main thing that held me back not having the book with Agile until I was 9th Level. I could have gotten about 6th if I would have had the book. In the mean time I got a belt of +2 dex/+2 con. And the body wraps can be upgraded at later time. But you right, it was later in my career.

I do have some Str (+2 bonus) so I can carry stuff. Have to keep a light load after all.

Liberty's Edge

Chess Pwn wrote:
plus with bodywraps it only works on a portion of the attacks a Monk make.

Very true for bonus to attack and damage. But the Aglie applies to all attacks.

Liberty's Edge

Matt2VK wrote:

I really thought about the Extra Movement but since this is for PFS, very rarely do you have space on the maps (encounters) that you need the extra movement for. Usually the problem is there just isn't enough space and you have your fellow party members getting in the way.

Over half the fights seem to be in buildings or some type of dungeon crawl.

Thinking about this now, might drop a Extra Ki feat for Feat: Skill Focus Acrobatics.

If you really want to be able to move around look at Spring Attack. It is useful to get yourself into a flank and out again without taking a hit.

Liberty's Edge

Ferious Thune wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
plus with bodywraps it only works on a portion of the attacks a Monk make.
This is a major negative to the item. Especially if you're relying on it for something like Agile.

Ok so I already replied that Agile is applied to all unarmed strikes and is independent from the enchantment bonus. But reading your comment makes me wonder. Looking again at the description of Body Wraps, I still believe I am correctly applying Agile.

Am I confused or was I not reading your comment clearly?

I agree that an amulet would be cheaper but I put ghost touch on my amulet. I only use the amulet when I am fighting ghosts. Otherwise I have a amulet of Natural Armor.


Dipping a level of Crusader Sarenrae Cleric to flurry a scimitar with Dervish Dance makes a pretty great dex-based Monk as well, with the benefit of making specific magic items less important.

Sovereign Court

Gary Bush wrote:


I agree that an amulet would be cheaper but I put ghost touch on my amulet. I only use the amulet when I am fighting ghosts. Otherwise I have a amulet of Natural Armor.

The AoNA is a waste for monks. That's why every monk worth his salt grabs Barkskin ASAP.

Scarab Sages

Gary Bush wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
plus with bodywraps it only works on a portion of the attacks a Monk make.
This is a major negative to the item. Especially if you're relying on it for something like Agile.

Ok so I already replied that Agile is applied to all unarmed strikes and is independent from the enchantment bonus. But reading your comment makes me wonder. Looking again at the description of Body Wraps, I still believe I am correctly applying Agile.

Am I confused or was I not reading your comment clearly?

I agree that an amulet would be cheaper but I put ghost touch on my amulet. I only use the amulet when I am fighting ghosts. Otherwise I have a amulet of Natural Armor.

I guess I can see how it could be interpreted the way you are, but I've never seen it discussed that way. I'm the only one I've ever seen at the table with Bodywraps, and I only have the enhancement bonus. But to me, it seems pretty clear that they only apply to a limited number of attacks, and the later section talking about granting melee weapon special abilities is just saying that in place of an enhancement bonus, you can get a special ability, like with a magic weapon.

I think the line in the description that most causes you problems is "Unlike an amulet of mighty fists, a bodywrap needs to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability." By my reading, that means they must grant an enhancement bonus in order to grant a special ability. If they aren't granting an enhancement bonus on an attack, then they can't grant a special ability on that attack.

I'll admit there's some room for interpretation, but I would expect that to be the way it's ruled most often.


The bodywraps only function a certain amount of times, other than those attacks your other attacks are made as if you weren't wearing the bodywraps.

Liberty's Edge

Ferious Thune wrote:

I guess I can see how it could be interpreted the way you are, but I've never seen it discussed that way. I'm the only one I've ever seen at the table with Bodywraps, and I only have the enhancement bonus. But to me, it seems pretty clear that they only apply to a limited number of attacks, and the later section talking about granting melee weapon special abilities is just saying that in place of an enhancement bonus, you can get a special ability, like with a magic weapon.

<snip>

I'll admit there's some room for interpretation, but I would expect that to be the way it's ruled most often.

For reference:

Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes PRD wrote:

This long cloth is wrapped around the chest multiple times like a bandage. Once per round, the wearer may add an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on one attack and damage roll for an unarmed strike or natural attack (for one specific attack, not all attacks made with an unarmed strike that round). The wearer may use this item an additional time per round when his BAB reaches +6, +11, and +16.

<snip 2nd paragraph>

Additionally, the bodywrap can grant melee weapon special abilities to a creature's unarmed attacks, so long as those special abilities to be added apply to unarmed attacks. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. Any special abilities are set at the time of creation. A bodywrap of mighty strikes cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +7. Unlike an amulet of mighty fists, a bodywrap needs to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

So we agree (and Chess Pwn as well) that the first paragraph limits the enchantment bonus to a set number of attacks.

The third paragraph is the part for discussion. I am not confused by the bodywrap needing a +1 enchantment. I see that as preserving the original intent of the item: increase attack and damage for unarmed attacks. The item cannot really do that if it does not have an enchantment.

However, the adding of weapon special abilities is "to a creature's unarmed attacks". It does not say "unarmed attacks that has had the enchantment bonus applied". So I believe the weapon special abilities applies to all unarmed attacks.

I have not done any forum research on this question however.

Liberty's Edge

As an FYI, I am going to put this question out as a formal FAQ request in Rules section tomorrow.

Sorry to the to the OP for the detail of the topic.


It's basically the same wording as in Amulet of might fists, and bracers of armor. It's saying and meaning that if you want you can have your +2 be a +1 and a +1 equivalent. So the bodywraps would add +1 agile to 1 attack per round because the bodywraps only work once per round.

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