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So I just reached 3rd with my Wizard here, but I have a few questions considering the alternative summons which are legal under PFS: http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources under AP #29 which is Hell Hound for Summon Monster 2.
My problem with this, is Hell Hound appears on the normal Summon Monster 4 and there is no hint in the AP that you must need a feat to summon this creature at Summon Monster 2 or that it is a template variant like Young Creature or some other to lower it's CR, considering it is a CR 3 creature.
I wanted to check with you that I'm not misreading this and it is a allowed summon for Summon Monster 2.
Also, not sure what feat to choose from now I'm 3rd level. the character is an Egorian Academy Infernal Binder so I am focused on summoning creatures and I already have Augmented Summon, since being an Elf I started with Spell Focus.
So far I selected Superior Summoning, but I'd like to hear whatever suggestions people might have.
Jaquilin Leroung
Female elf wizard 3 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Animal Archive)
LN Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +7; Senses low-light vision; Perception +1
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Defense
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AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 17 (3d6+3)
Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +3; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee dagger +0 (1d4-1/19-20) or
. . quarterstaff +0 (1d6-1)
Ranged light crossbow +4 (1d8/19-20)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +8)
. . 2nd—spontaneous immolation[UC] (DC 17), summon monster II, summon monster II
. . 1st—infernal healing[ISWG], magic missile (2), summon monster I, summon monster I
. . 0 (at will)—acid splash, disrupt undead, light, resistance
. . Opposition Schools Divination, Illusion
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Statistics
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Str 9, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 8, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 13
Feats Alertness, Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (conjuration)
Traits diabolical dabbler, master of pentacles
Skills Acrobatics +0 (-4 to jump), Appraise +10, Craft (bookbinding) +8, Diplomacy -2 (+0 to gather information), Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (geography) +9, Knowledge (history) +11, Knowledge (nature) +10, Knowledge (nobility) +11, Knowledge (planes) +13, Knowledge (religion) +10, Linguistics +11, Perception +1, Sense Motive +1 (+3 to read a social situation), Spellcraft +10 (+12 to identify magic item properties); Racial Modifiers +2 Spellcraft to identify magic item properties
Languages Azlanti, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Infernal, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ able assistant, arcane bond (taurion, greensting scorpion [valet]), arcane focus, assume control, elven magic, summoner's charm (1 round), urbanite
Combat Gear pearl of power (1st level); Other Gear crossbow bolts (10), dagger, light crossbow, quarterstaff, cloak of resistance +1, bedroll, belt pouch, cage, tiny[APG], fishhook (2), flint and steel, folding chair[UE], ink, inkpen, journal[UE], masterwork backpack[APG], mirror, mug/tankard, sewing needle, signal whistle, spell component pouch, spellbook, string or twine[APG], thread (50 ft.), trail rations (7), waterskin, whetstone, 1,834 gp, 4 sp
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Special Abilities
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Able Assistant (Ex) A valet's master treats the valet as if it possessed the Cooperative Crafting feat and shared all Craft skills and item creation feats he possesses. This ability replaces Alertness.
Cooperative Casting
Your assistance makes item crafting f
Arcane Focus +2 to concentration checks to cast arcane spells defensively.
Assume Control (1 round, 8/day) (Su) At 1st level, you can attempt to gain control over a summoned creature by disrupting the bond between it and the caster who summoned it. You must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) equal to 10 + the summoning caster's level. If you know
Augment Summoning Summoned creatures have +4 to Strength and Constitution.
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Diabolical Dabbler Each fiendish animal you conjure with any summon spell gains +1 hit point per hit die for the duration of the spell that summoned it.
Divination You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Divination school.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Familiar Bonus: +4 bonus on initiative checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Illusion You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Illusion school.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Master of Pentacles (1/day) Conjuration spell gains +2 CL for the purpose of duration.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Summoner's Charm (+1 rds) (Su) Increase duration of summoning spells by 1/2 level (permanent at 20).
Urbanite +2 Diplomacy to gather information & Sense Motive to read a social situation.
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
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The hellhound on the second level list is specifically for Asmodeus worshippers.
That's one reason I don't use that site, they aren't very clear where stuff comes from.
Ahh, well she is a Asmodeus worshipper being from Cheliax and having attended the school.
I assume it just means she needs to worship the deity and not be a divine caster.
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http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lv85?What-are-considered-priests-for-customize d#5
havnt seen it changed
Hmm...just above James Jacobs had suggested that it was any spellcaster who worships the said deity: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lv85?What-are-considered-priests-for-customize d#4
Also further Below someone made a interesting post considering how what was said has not been an offical ruling. I'm still reading through the thread to see if there has been an offical ruling yet: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lv85?What-are-considered-priests-for-customize d#31
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you have to be a cleric to use the additional summoning lists from the AP's. It was ruled on by Mark a while back and hasnt changed. Having a cleric that uses that list, I can tell you hellhounds have never really helped him.
From what I read there has been no offical ruling. If anything it'll be up to the GM as James Jacobs said "Priest" could be any spellcaster that follows a religion whilst Mark stated it would only be a divine caster, but would talk it discuss the topic before making an offical ruling on the subject.
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This is something I don't understand. People one on to ask a question, then when they don't get the answer they want, they argue it.
Why ask the question in the first place?
If you firmly believe there is no ruling on it and are going to ignore the ruling on the forum linked to you here, why ask?
I apologize, I don't want to come off like a jerk, but it's a peeve.
As far as I have known, it is only clerics who have access to the alternative summoning lists.
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This is something I don't understand. People one on to ask a question, then when they don't get the answer they want, they argue it.
Why ask the question in the first place?
If you firmly believe there is no ruling on it and are going to ignore the ruling on the forum linked to you here, why ask?
I apologize, I don't want to come off like a jerk, but it's a peeve.
As far as I have known, it is only clerics who have access to the alternative summoning lists.
It's a legitimate question, and technically in Golarion any worshiper is a priest. But, for PFS only, they have limited it to clerics to limit who gains the benefits.
It's also fair to argue the point as well, since the decision was long ago and left on a 'I'll look into it' without a 'we looked into it, we're keeping it this way/we're changing it' answer.The rules of PFS are not static. Ignoring the rules is bad... but fighting for the rules you believe would be better for the campaign can enrich the game.
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Was Mark the campaign coordinator or campaign developer at the time? If not then it definitely isn't the rule for PFS.
As Lore said being cleric only would be a special exception to the normal rules for how this works. Many gods specifically favor wizards etc as their priests. It is an occupation not a class.
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Was Mark the campaign coordinator or campaign developer at the time? If not then it definitely isn't the rule for PFS.
As Lore said being cleric only would be a special exception to the normal rules for how this works. Many gods specifically favor wizards etc as their priests. It is an occupation not a class.
It's not even an occupation. It is just a word to describe a worshiper. But Mark had the right to make the rule, he made the rule. So we live by the rule. Until said rule changes.
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I recall the discussions for this at the time, and IIRC it centered on the versatility of the spell already, and how making it even more versatile without cost was a balance issue. Of course, a well-reasoned argument has worked before.
I've said this before, but I'm against anything that makes NPCs better or more numerous on the table when it's the PCs who are actually buying books and flying to cons and so on, so I don't think making the summons list broader is a good idea of the campaign. (And I love summoners... *love* them. As a GM in home games and a player in home games. But in PFS, it isn't a great fit.)
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I know Lamplighter is going to die from shock if he reads what I'm about to say, so I'll put it into a spoiler for his safety.
The reason that the developers have not expanded the summoning lists is that they wish to keep them balanced.
There are ways to make your summoning more versatile, mostly through feats like Summon Good Monster and Summon Neutral Monster and Skeletal Summoner.
Now, if you believe that there is a good reason to change this for PFS, then start a thread and form a persuasive argument for that change.
Like Lamplighter, I don't believe the game needs broader summoning lists.
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@Jaquilin Leroung: Just a heads up, as it came up in another thread recently, That Valet familiar archetype on your "spoilered" character doesn't get the cooperative crafting feat (pretty sure they retain the ability it would normally replace). It's a PFS alteration.
Also, for alternate caster lists, I'd look into the Pact Wizard archetype from the Familiar Folio. It's a Wizard archetype that gains access to Sacred Summons feat and gives the wizard an Aura (ex) class feature, which affects eligibility to many of the summoning feats normally exclusive to clerics.
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Thank you everyone for the help. I'm going to see about messaging the developers to see if we can get a clear answer here.
Sadly I didn't realise the initial restriction so I had been summoning a Bloody Skeleton, not realising it was meant for Urgathoa "priests" instead. Shame, but I'm fine with this altercation and I'm letting my regular group why they won't be seeing the one character who helped them in the emerald spire part 1 return and with a friend or two, lol :p
I'll also inform them about the current vagueness of the rules. I understand taking what Mark stated at face-value, though as someone on here said the rules aren't static and he only gave his opinion, not a "This is the rule" so I'd still like to fight for the ruling, but will understand if this character won't be able to summon her Hell Hound yet.
@Jaquilin Leroung: Just a heads up, as it came up in another thread recently, That Valet familiar archetype on your "spoilered" character doesn't get the cooperative crafting feat (pretty sure they retain the ability it would normally replace). It's a PFS alteration.
Also, for alternate caster lists, I'd look into the Pact Wizard archetype from the Familiar Folio. It's a Wizard archetype that gains access to Sacred Summons feat and gives the wizard an Aura (ex) class feature, which affects eligibility to many of the summoning feats normally exclusive to clerics.
Thanks for the update on the character. I knew the cooperative crafting wasn't of any use. I only chose that because for fluff it sounds kinda cool that the companion will be picking stuff up and moving it around for her whilst she relaxes in her room and reading, but then again that is often my downfall of some characters where I come up with the fluff first and build around it making some odd character builds, but at least they're fun :D Not to mention I didn't really want a familiar, but for the school you HAVE to take one and it gets replaced by an Imp at 7th level.
Pact Wizard sounds interesting, but it appears I don't have the books yet AND she's already 3rd level so it'll be impossible to change her level. Sacred summoning does look interesting, but I do love the others like adding an extra creature when using a higher level summon to summoner weaker beings and the ability to have them turned into skeletal versions.
There's really not too much to choose from as there's a summon GOOD monster feat, but no evil or, as it's PFS, no lawful.