Grappling then FoB


Rules Questions


Sorry if this has already been asked, but I didn't see the specific issue addressed anywhere.

Can a monk (or brawler for that matter) who initiates a grapple use flurry of blows? Rules seem to suggest that the monk can only do this if he is the graplee, not the initiator of the grapple. Yet that seems at odds with the flavor. Why would I want to be a brawler if starting a grapple puts me at a disadvantage?

Thanks in advance.


Depends on how you view a disadvantage. Can you flurry? NO. But if you grapple a caster, or someone with a two-handed weapon, they can't do anything useful. Or you grapple to pin the next round to incapacitate quickly.


When would you use FOB?

On the round you initiate the grapple, you MUST use a standard action to initiate it and therefore you don't have any actions that round to make any blows, let alone a flurry of them.

Next round you use a standard action to maintain the grapple. If successful, you can do your unarmed damage if you want to, as part of that same standard action. That's ONE damage, not an entire round of damage, so it's whatever you do from one attack. After using your standard action to maintain the grapple, you don't have any actions that round to make even one more blow, let alone a flurry of them.

I know of feats that can get that second grapple check down to a MOVE action but you still can't use FOB if you've used a move action.

If you have some combination of feats or class abilities or something that lets you grapple as a swift of free action, or that lets you maintain a grapple as a swift or free action, then yes, you could use FOB while being the grappler. I don't know of any way to do it, but if you find the way, please post it.

Without that, there is no way to get a full-round attack in the same round that you make a grapple check, so you'll never be able to use FOB or any other means of making a full attack.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Starting a Grapple is a Standard action. Flurry of Blows is a Full-attack action. So no, you can't do both. Even Rapid Grappler does not allow for FoB, it only allows for 3 "grapple" options in a round.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

j b 200 wrote:
Starting a Grapple is a Standard action. Flurry of Blows is a Full-attack action. So no, you can't do both.

+1

Even a Maneuver Master can't start with the Grapple. They need to do their highest bonus (normal) attacks first, then start doing their Flurry of Maneuver attacks, which can be Grapples.

Grand Lodge

Like others have said, you can't do a full round action while grappling due to it being a standard action to maintain the grapple.

On the other hand, if you are the target of the grapple (Grapplee?) You can still attack with light or one handed weapons. If you look at the grapple combat section, there's a FAQ that states you can still full attack if you're the grappled, although at a -2 to hit.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Grunyar StoneFist wrote:
On the other hand, if you are the target of the grapple (Grapplee?) You can still attack with light or one handed weapons. If you look at the grapple combat section, there's a FAQ that states you can still full attack if you're the grappled, although at a -2 to hit.

This is likely a net zero since the target has -4 pentalty to Dex (unless you are using Weapon Finesse, in which case your attacks have -4 [-2 from grappled plus -2 from the Dex penalty].


j b 200 wrote:
Grunyar StoneFist wrote:
On the other hand, if you are the target of the grapple (Grapplee?) You can still attack with light or one handed weapons. If you look at the grapple combat section, there's a FAQ that states you can still full attack if you're the grappled, although at a -2 to hit.
This is likely a net zero since the target has -4 pentalty to Dex (unless you are using Weapon Finesse, in which case your attacks have -4 [-2 from grappled plus -2 from the Dex penalty].

Most often, this is true, but a lot of creatures and grappling builds do have tricks that let them not take that penalty or not get the grappled condition.


Look into the feat Binding Throw. Since you can replace a single attack in your Full Attack routine with a trip attempt, you can burn a swift action to initiate the grapple. Of course, this doesn't help in subsequent rounds (unless you are a Maneuver Master Monk), but it is rather nice to inflict the Prone and Grappled conditions while getting extra attacks.

Grand Lodge

Or there's always the Snapping Turtle style feats to get a grapple check as an immediate action after provoking an AoO, and then immediately pin them with your standard. This is what my Tetori Monk does to avoid getting smacked while grappling.

Grand Lodge

ANother option is to have Impr Grapple, Greater Grapple and Rapid Grappler which will let you turn your move and swift into grapple attempts and the rounds following a successful grapple. That combined with some high damage options, like pinning knockout, can really increase your damage and do it without having the penalties of iteratives.

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