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Hi all, I have an idea for a crossbowman who's not afraid to get into melee and I'm trying to figure out how.
the Idea behind it all is to at later levels, be a greater snap shot/combat reflexes guy.
anyway, I've figured out how to not provoke with a lot of the actions.
Crossbow Mastery/Vigilant loading means I don't provoke when I reload while threatened.
is there anyway my character could fire whilst threatened without provoking.
I know at later levels because of Vigilant Shooter you can spent a grit point to fire without provoking, but that comes online very late and it costs a grit point.
I was wondering, would weaing a Cestus allow me to fire a crossbow in melee without provoking? if it does than great. mission accomplished.
so far the the obvious feat I'm aware of that allows a person to fire in melee without provoking is point blank master, but because of the weapon specialisation prerequisites the Bolt Ace can't qualify for it.
The other Feat I know of that might work is the Sword and Pistol Feat, though that would only work if I throw a punch with the cestus before I fire the crossbow, and the major issue with this is that you'd be using the cestus at a -2, and then a heavy crossbow at a -6 so you probably won't hit with the crossbow anyway, and if you planned on using rapid shot you're not at -2,-8,-8... which kinda sucks.
so yeah, how can a bolt ace fire in melee without provoking, without having to spend a grit point.
Just invest in Empty Quiver Style
Just invest in Empty Quiver Style
I don't really want to use the weapon as a melee weapon due to poor STR mod. [Srike]besides, empty quiver style is kind of a waste since the Bolt Ace can use Pistol Whip Dead.[Srike] scratch that, I've noticed some of the other feats later down the chain and some of those look pretty decent. though I'd still prefer to use it as a range weapon due to the low STR mod.
You could ask your GM to modify the Deft Shootist grit feat to work with crossbows, on the basis that bolt aces work with crossbows the way an ordinary gunslinger works with guns.
At higher levels it might also be possible to get magic which renders you more or less immune to AoOs. Mirror image, improved invis., etc.
You could ask your GM to modify the Deft Shootist grit feat to work with crossbows, on the basis that bolt aces work with crossbows the way an ordinary gunslinger works with guns.
At higher levels it might also be possible to get magic which renders you more or less immune to AoOs. Mirror image, improved invis., etc.
I hadn't really thought about magic items, that could be a pretty good option. and house ruling the deft shootist feat would be pretty cool providing the gm is game.
though the more I think about it the more feat intensive this build is haha.
PBS
PS
RS
RR
CM
WF
SS
Dodge
Mobility
DS
Improved SS
Greater SS
haha, this is a pretty late game build.
Since the Bolt Ace was nerfed impeding the Signature Deed feat to work with Sharp Shoot, it is no longer optimal to full Gunslinger anymore.
For what you want, to be able to work in melee with your crossbow, the best choice is to pick up 5 levels of Bolt Ace to get crossbow training, and then switch to Figher-Weapon master. You can get weapon focus and weapon specialization to get Point-blank master, allowing you to shot in melee with your crossbow.
Having weapon training also nets you the option of improving your bonus with the gloves of dueling, and also, allows you to select the weapon mastery feats, and for instance, Burrowing Shot is an excelent choice.
Re: Empty Quiver, a hand crossbow as a backup weapon is usable with Weapon Finesse
yeah but the build I like is a heavy crossbow. although empty quiver style, weapon versatility, and slashing grace with the hand crossbow would be pretty cool haha.
Since the Bolt Ace was nerfed impeding the Signature Deed feat to work with Sharp Shoot, it is no longer optimal to full Gunslinger anymore.
For what you want, to be able to work in melee with your crossbow, the best choice is to pick up 5 levels of Bolt Ace to get crossbow training, and then switch to Figher-Weapon master. You can get weapon focus and weapon specialization to get Point-blank master, allowing you to shot in melee with your crossbow.
Having weapon training also nets you the option of improving your bonus with the gloves of dueling, and also, allows you to select the weapon mastery feats, and for instance, Burrowing Shot is an excelent choice.
yeah, I was thinking of multicasting into fighter, A lot of people are under the impression that theres no point in sticking with bolt ace after 5 levels anyway.
Side note- do you even want a heavy crossbow?
Honestly asking ehre. Doesn't it need crossbow mastery in order to reload as a free action if you don't have the level 11 ability? And don't you need to ahve your choice of primary weapon pretty much down pat by level 5 since crossbow training requires a specific choice?
A light crossbow fills the same general job, and only need rapid reload to get to free. The difference is about 1 damage, on average- is heavy crossbow worth all those feats and trouble?
If I was really pushing it, I might even go with hand crossbow and grab a light shield. Because you are planning to get into the face of enemies a lot more than most gunslingers.
If I was really pushing it, I might even go with hand crossbow and grab a light shield. Because you are planning to get into the face of enemies a lot more than most gunslingers.
I was thinking about making a Bolt Ace who switches to Weapon Master after level 5 and taking the AWT "Focused Weapon" to change the damage dice on the hand crossbow to 1d6 growing to 2d6 over 15 levels of WM; you only need 5 levels of WM to match the damage die on a light crossbow and 10 for a heavy (or 5 to match a heavy crossbow if you're small.) That's probably worth a feat. Only issue is that your'e stuck with a 30' range increment.
Not sure how this would interact with empty quiver style though.
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If you're going to get into people's faces, I'd suggest a launching crossbow with concentrated splash. Take some ranks in craft (alchemy) so you can craft acid for it (the ammo will be expensive but worth it), concentrated splash will removed the splash damage but it will give you a 50% damage boost. That's a 50% damage boost on a 1d6 touch attack + dex mod + any enchantment bonus to the weapon. Considering you're loading it with alchemical weapons, you could swap out for holy water or alchemist fire and be ready for most things you'd be fighting too. You'll need to take crossbow mastery to reload it as a free action, but a light crossbow should work until then, and the damage bonus is worth considering.
And yeah, GS/BA 6+ is not worth it, not even a little bit.
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I don't know if I'd really build around a launching crossbow, it's a fun build, but because you're not able to use deadly aim, the damage is roughly the same, and depending on whether the enemies you're fighting have resistances or immunities, it could be quite hard to actually deal damage. Comparatively, DR is a lot easier to get around, especially with Clustered shot.
It would definitely be an accuracy increase though.
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I don't know if I'd really build around a launching crossbow, it's a fun build, but because you're not able to use deadly aim, the damage is roughly the same, and depending on whether the enemies you're fighting have resistances or immunities, it could be quite hard to actually deal damage. Comparatively, DR is a lot easier to get around, especially with Clustered shot.
It would definitely be an accuracy increase though.
Comparatively the same, but you can also switch between quite a few ammo types, like burst jars to deafen (plus sonic damage, so no resist there), shard gel which is a physical damage type and free caltrops, and (while expensive) tangleburn bags for a debuff along with your damage. It'll give you quite a bit of versatility in your ammo, and that's without bringing a hybridization funnel into the mix to combo them.
Really, it's a fun and different way to play the class. I wouldn't really say one is massively better than the other, but they're both pretty viable even if your ammo cost are going to be considerably higher for that added versatility. I just like being able to have different types of ammo to use for things like this.
If you multi class consider Sohei monk instead of fighter.
You can flurry of blows with the crossbow at level 6 and it will stack with rapid shot, haste and spending a ki point... And have weapon training.
I don't know if I'd really build around a launching crossbow, it's a fun build, but because you're not able to use deadly aim, the damage is roughly the same, and depending on whether the enemies you're fighting have resistances or immunities, it could be quite hard to actually deal damage. Comparatively, DR is a lot easier to get around, especially with Clustered shot.
It would definitely be an accuracy increase though.
Comparatively the same, but you can also switch between quite a few ammo types, like burst jars to deafen (plus sonic damage, so no resist there), shard gel which is a physical damage type and free caltrops, and (while expensive) tangleburn bags for a debuff along with your damage. It'll give you quite a bit of versatility in your ammo, and that's without bringing a hybridization funnel into the mix to combo them.
Really, it's a fun and different way to play the class. I wouldn't really say one is massively better than the other, but they're both pretty viable even if your ammo cost are going to be considerably higher for that added versatility. I just like being able to have different types of ammo to use for things like this.
Is there any reason you can't do both? Crossbow Mastery applies to all crossbows, so you could use Light Crossbow+Clustered shots on some opponents and switch to launching crossbow+alchemical weapons as appropriate. Bit like a Hawkeye character with a crossbow.